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RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

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  • Originally posted by ECAC Fan View Post
    Does anyone know if Orosz will be back this season?
    She’s done, physically & mentally.
    Torn hip labrum

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    • Originally posted by lugnut92 View Post
      "if only, if only," the woodpecker sighs...
      5-1 & 2-0
      Both losses
      0-26
      Unreal. Time for BV to update his resume, maybe HS hockey is a better level.

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      • Originally posted by sezenack View Post
        What a dumb double standard if that's the case. They had no problems eating 5 years of Appert's contract but can't be bothered for only 1-2 years of Vines? I have pretty much accepted the fact Vines won't be fired, but it would be the right move.
        Then, 0-70 it will be!!! Or 100 loses if he stays for 2

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        • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

          We were officially eliminated from the playoffs this weekend, which was obviously a long time coming. KRACH does at least give us better than 50% odds of not finishing the year with 0 points. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

          EDIT: This is mostly because of the flat odds of a tie. If you take that out, we're at 2.2% to not go completely winless.
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          • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

            Originally posted by sezenack View Post
            What a dumb double standard if that's the case. They had no problems eating 5 years of Appert's contract but can't be bothered for only 1-2 years of Vines? I have pretty much accepted the fact Vines won't be fired, but it would be the right move.
            Originally posted by lugnut92 View Post
            Breaking news: Athletics departments more willing to spend money on men's sports than women's. More at 11.
            On a Title IX basis we are over invested in women's hockey. Opportunity is supposed to be proportional to enrollment, which is a real problem for any school that has a majority female population and a football team. In our case we offer the same number of scholarships for men and women even though the male enrollment is 2x the female headcount.

            More importantly, women's hockey is not a revenue sport. I doubt many schools would be willing to pay two coaches in that circumstance. We would not be the first school to keep an underachieving coach in such a sport until a contract expires or, hopefully, the coach gets tired of losing and leaves on his/her own. Other ECAC women's hockey programs like Union, Brown and Yale have seemingly dealt with the same issue.
            Last edited by rpi82; 01-26-2020, 08:39 PM.

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            • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

              Originally posted by rpi82 View Post
              On a Title IX basis we are over invested in women's hockey. Opportunity is supposed to be proportional to enrollment, which is a real problem for any school that has a majority female population and a football team. In our case we offer the same number of scholarships for men and women even though the male enrollment is 2x the female headcount.

              More importantly, women's hockey is not a revenue sport. I doubt many schools would be willing to pay two coaches in that circumstance. We would not be the first school to keep an underachieving coach in such a sport until a contract expires or, hopefully, the coach gets tired of losing and leaves on his/her own. Other ECAC women's hockey programs like Union, Brown and Yale have seemingly dealt with the same issue.
              This is a good perspective on the challenge at RPI. It seems that every year we dump on the coach of the day, but the issues are deeper. There needs to be a deeper commitment to the success of the program at the very top of the Tute's administration, and there is every reason in the world why that commitment should be there. This is the only women's D1 program at RPI. It has always attracted young athletes interested in combining top notch education in math/science/engineering with top notch athletic competition. If ever there was an opportunity for this institution to demonstrate its commitment to advancing women in these fields, this is it. Someone needs to get to the Prez and make her understand that this is much more than a hockey issue. This is an issue of the role of women at an institute like RPI, and if she doesn't understand that, then ....

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              • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                Originally posted by hab View Post
                This is a good perspective on the challenge at RPI. It seems that every year we dump on the coach of the day, but the issues are deeper. There needs to be a deeper commitment to the success of the program at the very top of the Tute's administration, and there is every reason in the world why that commitment should be there. This is the only women's D1 program at RPI. It has always attracted young athletes interested in combining top notch education in math/science/engineering with top notch athletic competition. If ever there was an opportunity for this institution to demonstrate its commitment to advancing women in these fields, this is it. Someone needs to get to the Prez and make her understand that this is much more than a hockey issue. This is an issue of the role of women at an institute like RPI, and if she doesn't understand that, then ....
                A problem seems to me that even with the increase in interest by women of a technical education, it is still significantly less than the interest by men. Since there is little opportunity for continuing in hockey after graduation, the attraction of a business/management degree, which almost all of the men hockey players major in, is also not there. It seems like a large portion of the women hockey players have no interest in RPI from the start. The male/female ratio at RPI, which probably is still a negative on the men's side, does not seem to have a positive effect for the women. (Possibly because of the perception that men interested in a technical education are all nerds.)

                Somehow Clarkson gets around this.
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                • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                  Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                  A problem seems to me that even with the increase in interest by women of a technical education, it is still significantly less than the interest by men. Since there is little opportunity for continuing in hockey after graduation, the attraction of a business/management degree, which almost all of the men hockey players major in, is also not there. It seems like a large portion of the women hockey players have no interest in RPI from the start. The male/female ratio at RPI, which probably is still a negative on the men's side, does not seem to have a positive effect for the women. (Possibly because of the perception that men interested in a technical education are all nerds.)

                  Somehow Clarkson gets around this.
                  I was going to make the "hey we're an engineering school" argument too, but then I also thought of Clarkson. Looking at their roster it is similar to ours (from a majors perspective, not talent). There are a lot of business majors, some science majors and an occasional engineer. The oddities, from an engineering school perspective, were several psychology majors (which would be expected at any liberal arts university), physical therapy and something called "University Studies." For the most part it would seem that we should be able to recruit the same players but they are winning and, before this year, we are perennially just above or below the playoff line. So, what's the difference? It can't be the lure of Potsdam, so is it a freebie or two every year from admissions, investing more money (and into what budget item), just getting lucky and finding the right coach, aligning of the stars,.....?
                  Last edited by rpi82; 01-27-2020, 07:20 AM.

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                  • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                    Originally posted by rpi82 View Post
                    I was going to make the "hey we're an engineering school" argument too, but then I also thought of Clarkson. Looking at their roster it is similar to ours (from a majors perspective, not talent). There are a lot of business majors, some science majors and an occasional engineer. The oddities, from an engineering school perspective, were several psychology majors (which would be expected at any liberal arts university), physical therapy and something called "University Studies." For the most part it would seem that we should be able to recruit the same players but they are winning and, before this year, we are perennially just above or below the playoff line. So, what's the difference? It can't be the lure of Potsdam, so is it investing more money (and into what budget item), just getting lucky and finding the right coach, aligning of the stars,.....?
                    They are also much nearer the Canadian border which some players might regard as attractive. Also they took out the word "Technology" from their name which might fool some.
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                    • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                      Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                      They are also much nearer the Canadian border which some players might regard as attractive. Also they took out the word "Technology" from their name which might fool some.
                      True, but in practice the proximity argument doesn't really apply in most cases. If you live in far Eastern Ontario (Ottawa/Kingston, Cornwall triangle) then Clarkson is far closer. If you live from Montreal on to the east or Toronto on to the west it really isn't significant because Potsdam can only be reached by country highway while Troy can be reached by interstate. Montreal and Toronto are only about an extra hour to Troy versus Potsdam. The number of players for whom proximity, unless they just want to be close to the St. Lawrence River because it reminds them of home, is really significant is a distinct minority of the roster. Add in the number of Americans and Europeans on the rosters and it's just hard to imagine it explains much of the difference in success rates between the programs.

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                      • Originally posted by rpi82 View Post
                        True, but in practice the proximity argument doesn't really apply in most cases. If you live in far Eastern Ontario (Ottawa/Kingston, Cornwall triangle) then Clarkson is far closer. If you live from Montreal on to the east or Toronto on to the west it really isn't significant because Potsdam can only be reached by country highway while Troy can be reached by interstate. Montreal and Toronto are only about an extra hour to Troy versus Potsdam. The number of players for whom proximity, unless they just want to be close to the St. Lawrence River because it reminds them of home, is really significant is a distinct minority of the roster. Add in the number of Americans and Europeans on the rosters and it's just hard to imagine it explains much of the difference in success rates between the programs.
                        You just don't understand RPI - the men's hockey program makes an otherwise mundane school a little more attractive in the winter to prospective students. The students show up for the men. What you have to give the men you also have to give to the women. That's just my opinion. However, one could argue that the men's program is not interested in being competitive either. And that might be the mindset now.

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                        • Originally posted by Reddington View Post
                          You just don't understand RPI - the men's hockey program makes an otherwise mundane school a little more attractive in the winter to prospective students. The students show up for the men. What you have to give the men you also have to give to the women. That's just my opinion. However, one could argue that the men's program is not interested in being competitive either. And that might be the mindset now.
                          After 45 years I've seen the light......

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                          • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                            Originally posted by rpi82 View Post
                            I was going to make the "hey we're an engineering school" argument too, but then I also thought of Clarkson. ......So, what's the difference? It can't be the lure of Potsdam, so is it a freebie or two every year from admissions, investing more money (and into what budget item), just getting lucky and finding the right coach, aligning of the stars,.....?
                            It can't be the lure of Potsdam, CHECK
                            so is it a freebie or two every year from admissions Not privey to that info
                            investing more money CHECK
                            just getting lucky No a President and AD that are fully behind both hockey programs and expect excellence in hockey just like the academics of the school
                            and finding the right coaches: Double Check Shannon and Matt Desrosiers
                            aligning of the stars,.....?You never know what mysterious forces there are at work in the universe
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                            • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                              Title IX proportionality does not apply to a D3 university.
                              Distance doesn't matter, players go to play wherever.
                              Engineering school issue, nope, plenty of other rigorous universities out there that succeed in both men and women's programs.
                              The issue comes down to a prez and ad that don't care. ad was quoted at doing a national search, never happened. prez stated upgrading the rink, yeah right.
                              Obviously not spending money and you have a hard time winning if you don't.
                              Now the last piece is a culture and trying to change it. NOT easy to change even if it seems everyone is pulling to do so. With that culture other teams expect to win. Frustration sets in, I'm sure a lack of proper coaching communication and player understanding happens. Little slights are magnified, players stop buying in.
                              Plenty of examples from pro sports, college sports and more than hockey that show this.
                              Culture change starts from the top and when the top does more than mouth service it can happen.

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                              • Re: RPI 2019-2020: Life after Lovisa

                                Originally posted by Northbynorthwest View Post
                                Title IX proportionality does not apply to a D3 university.
                                Distance doesn't matter, players go to play wherever.
                                Engineering school issue, nope, plenty of other rigorous universities out there that succeed in both men and women's programs.
                                The issue comes down to a prez and ad that don't care. ad was quoted at doing a national search, never happened. prez stated upgrading the rink, yeah right.
                                Obviously not spending money and you have a hard time winning if you don't.
                                Now the last piece is a culture and trying to change it. NOT easy to change even if it seems everyone is pulling to do so. With that culture other teams expect to win. Frustration sets in, I'm sure a lack of proper coaching communication and player understanding happens. Little slights are magnified, players stop buying in.
                                Plenty of examples from pro sports, college sports and more than hockey that show this.
                                Culture change starts from the top and when the top does more than mouth service it can happen.
                                My understanding is that title IX applies across ALL programs at all levels. my daughter is playing DIII and there have been discussions about title IX implications. don't think that's just a DI impact.

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