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World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    No. I'll try again using smaller words. Why does IEC buy if it's oh so hard on the owner? Is the buyer stupid or charitable?
    Read. The. Article.

    Many teams are recording significant losses over one or two seasons in an attempt to gain promotion to the Premier League

    ...

    Figures from Deloitte show that parachute payments, designed to help relegated clubs absorb big losses in revenue caused by dropping out of the top flight, are having a significant impact on the revenue inequality within the Championship.

    Parachute payments made up more than a third of the Championship's total revenue in 2017-18 - compared to just 9% when they were introduced in 2001-02 - meaning a third of the Championship's money now comes directly from the Premier League.

    The average club receiving parachute payments had a total revenue of £13m in 2001-02 against £10m for those without.

    In 2017-18 those receiving parachute payments had a total revenue of £51m against £21m for those without.
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    Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
    But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
    Originally posted by Doyle Woody
    Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

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    • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

      Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
      Read. The. Article.
      Read. My. Question.

      My contention is simple and you keep evading it: as long as you can find buyers for EPL clubs the owners have no standing to cry. If somebody is buying in that means it's a goldmine.

      If they start haying to pay people to take a club off their hands then I'll listen. Until then, it's the same BS we hear from our owners when they bay for public financing. It's Finance 101: socialize loss, privatize profit.

      What is your endgame here? Is this you trying to say that pro/rel is destroying the EPL so the MLS you wuv so much is superior? That's a testable hypothesis: we'll see in ten or fifteen years who is a healthier league. For all I (or you) know, you may be right. But you don't need to bend yourself into Trumpian knots playing rhetorical tricks in the meantime. My contention is simple and I would argue (of course) inarguable: as long as there's a line to buy a product either the product is sound or the buyers are suckers. You have to pick one of those.
      Last edited by Kepler; 12-18-2019, 11:27 AM.
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      • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

        Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
        Read. The. Article.
        so basically the relegated teams have a huge advantage in getting back up so the rest of the Championship needs to throw money at their teams to have a shot of catching the relegated clubs? And the Wigan ownership group doesn't see that changing so they got out before it all fell apart because they can't afford to keep up with relegated clubs? IEC on the other hand probably sees the "finish line" of throwing money at the club for a couple years and finding a way to get promoted...
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        • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Read. My. Question.

          My contention is simple and you keep evading it: as long as you can find buyers for EPL clubs the owners have no standing to cry. If somebody is buying in that means it's a goldmine.

          If they start haying to pay people to take a club off their hands then I'll listen. Until then, it's the same BS we hear from our owners when they bay for public financing. It's Finance 101: socialize loss, privatize profit.
          I think I answered it...but you're too dense to figure it out on your own...buyers always think they can fix the flaws, and they see the carrot of promotion but you have to actually get promoted for the payoff.
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          • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

            Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
            I think I answered it...but you're too dense to figure it out on your own...buyers always think they can fix the flaws, and they see the carrot of promotion but you have to actually get promoted for the payoff.
            I am certainly dense but I still think the expected value function is on my side. You do start to say in this iteration that the buyers are fools and like I've been saying that's plausible. God knows wealth and intellect are unrelated.

            I was more focused on the idea that already being in the EPL is supposedly somehow onerous, but my argument works just as well for being at any level within the system. If you bought you just proved you think it's a good deal to buy or you're a masochist, and while there are plenty of narcissists among team owners, I don't see many masochists.
            Last edited by Kepler; 12-18-2019, 11:38 AM.
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            • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              I am certainly dense but I still think the expected value function is on my side. You do start to say in this iteration that the buyers are fools and like I've been saying that's plausible. God knows wealth and intellect are unrelated.

              I was more focused on the idea that already being in the EPL is supposedly somehow onerous, but my argument works just as well for being at any level within the system. If you bought you just proved you think it's a good deal to buy or you're a masochist, and while there are plenty of narcissists among team owners, I don't see many masochists.
              Wealthy people don't always buy because its a good idea. Sometimes they buy because they want to have something...I mean does anyone think buying a giant diamond is a good idea? Those things don't have any real value.
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              • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                This is not a new trend in sports. Basically spend $1000 to win $100. Here in the US, that is what goes on with any sport that isn't the BIG 4 Leagues, the top 1/3 of D-1 Football and Bouncy Ball, NASCAR Cup series (well, 20-25 teams anyways), Top 75 PGA Tour golfers.
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                • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  I am certainly dense but I still think the expected value function is on my side. You do start to say in this iteration that the buyers are fools and like I've been saying that's plausible. God knows wealth and intellect are unrelated.

                  I was more focused on the idea that already being in the EPL is supposedly somehow onerous, but my argument works just as well for being at any level within the system. If you bought you just proved you think it's a good deal to buy or you're a masochist, and while there are plenty of narcissists among team owners, I don't see many masochists.
                  EFL not EPL. It’s talking about teams in the Championship, the level below. Being in the EPL is not the onerous, it’s getting there and staying there that’s onerous. Even being a mid-table team in the PL is dangerous because you’re one unlucky season from relegation and potential financial crisis.

                  In the European system, and especially in England, you have to take risk and spend above your means to move up, whether that’s to gain promotion or to a Europa League spot or to a title. If you do succeed, you’ll be rewarded and it’ll pay off. If you don’t, your club will be just another Leeds or Portsmouth.

                  15 years ago the Big Six didn’t exist, it was Man U, Arsenal, and Liverpool. Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and spent over a £100 million (money they didn’t have at that time) on players to try to win a title, and didn’t win (they won back to back in 2005 and 2006 after they bought Mourinho from Porto). Manchester City wasn’t relevant until they were bought by the Abu Dhabi group in 2008 who immediately increased spending, including breaking the transfer record for Robinho, and they still didn’t win until 2012. In both cases their owners covered huge financial losses until their successes.

                  Championship clubs don’t have the ability nor ownership to absorb those kinds of losses for the sake of, by comparison, a smaller and inconsistent payday. And when you don’t succeed things can spiral out of control quickly, posting sustained financial losses will get you hit with transfer bans, forcing you to field a worse team, risking relegation and further financial trouble. Even if you don’t risk it and plan soundly, you’ll still probably lose, get relegated, and face financial troubles anyway because everyone else is risking it.

                  It’s all a bubble relying upon constant injections of capital from naive rich folks to sustain it. Problem is, the amount rich folks willing to shell out won’t last, and when that day comes the whole system will collapse.
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                  Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                  But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                  Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                  Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                  Comment


                  • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                    Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                    Wealthy people don't always buy because its a good idea. Sometimes they buy because they want to have something...I mean does anyone think buying a giant diamond is a good idea? Those things don't have any real value.
                    As long as they increase in the price that can be obtained for them then sure they do. As long as Sheikh Al-Bone Saw thinks he can buy ManCity for $4B and sell for $10B he'll do it. Value is nothing but what some other moron will pay.
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                    • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                      Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                      It’s all a bubble relying upon constant injections of capital from naive rich folks to sustain it. Problem is, the amount rich folks willing to shell out won’t last, and when that day comes the whole system will collapse.
                      Solution?
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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Solution?
                        Get rid of pro/rel
                        Pair down the 91 PL+EFL clubs to 80
                        Split into 4 regional leagues of 20
                        Play 38 game season
                        Take top 4 from each league and have a 16 team playoff
                        Institute salary cap and transfer limits
                        U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                        Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                        I spell Failure with UAF

                        Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                        But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                        Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                        Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                          Get rid of pro/rel
                          Pair down the 91 PL+EFL clubs to 80
                          Split into 4 regional leagues of 20
                          Play 38 game season
                          Take top 4 from each league and have a 16 team playoff
                          Institute salary cap and transfer limits
                          So ruin everything in the name of profit parity.
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                          • Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                            Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                            Get rid of pro/rel
                            Pair down the 91 PL+EFL clubs to 80
                            Split into 4 regional leagues of 20
                            Play 38 game season
                            Take top 4 from each league and have a 16 team playoff
                            Institute salary cap and transfer limits
                            So simple that no one else has considered and rejected it.

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                            • Originally posted by JF_Gophers View Post
                              So ruin everything in the name of profit parity.
                              Either that or ruin everything when 10+ clubs go into administration and get expelled from the EFL like Bury.

                              All it takes is one event to disrupt the money flow and cause financial instability like the ITV Digital collapse did in 2002 and 14 clubs subsequently went into administration in the next four years.
                              U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                              Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                              I spell Failure with UAF

                              Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                              But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                              Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                              Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                                Either that or ruin everything when 10+ clubs go into administration and get expelled from the EFL like Bury.

                                All it takes is one event to disrupt the money flow and cause financial instability like the ITV Digital collapse did in 2002 and 14 clubs subsequently went into administration in the next four years.
                                You just wanted to kill 11. So it seems like this is self solving without a change.
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