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  • #91
    Re: 2019-20 Schedules

    Originally posted by altazo View Post
    I think the Champion should be the team playing the best hockey in March, not November.
    So, again, why play the RS in the first place, if all that matters are few games in March?

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: 2019-20 Schedules

      Originally posted by NUProf View Post
      This the the method ALL of the DIII hockey conferences have chosen. Live with it. You might prefer something else, but the people with the power have made another choice.
      So, you're saying that because d-3 is in cahoots on this one, it makes sense?

      It doesn't. And you, as a statistician, must certainly grasp that fact.

      Comment


      • #93
        [QUOTE=Fishman'81;6833326]
        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Don Quixote.[/QUOTE)

        That's what your coterie said about the possibility of a PWR being employed in D-3, isn't it? ("Tilting at windmills"...?)

        But that happened: the D-3 PWR finally exists, no thanks to you traditionalists, and that constitutes some progress.

        The next step towards a logical selection-process would obviously be to consider a larger body of work than the end of season side-shows.

        It's so very obvious. It really is.
        I don’t know of anyone who argued against using PWR for D3 selections.

        Try again...
        Russell Jaslow
        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
        U.S. College Hockey Online

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
          So, again, why play the RS in the first place, if all that matters are few games in March?
          You keep thinking the end result is all that matters. It doesn’t. Playing the game does.
          Russell Jaslow
          [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
          U.S. College Hockey Online

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
            So, you're saying that because d-3 is in cahoots on this one, it makes sense?

            It doesn't. And you, as a statistician, must certainly grasp that fact.
            It doesn’t matter whether it makes sense. It only matters that conferences chose that method.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
              So, again, why play the RS in the first place, if all that matters are few games in March?
              Because playing and watching hockey all season long is fun and it can lead to advantages (home ice, favorable opponents) once the really important games happen in conference playoffs and beyond.

              It’s just common sense after all...
              Last edited by altazo; 08-17-2019, 08:18 PM.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                [QUOTE=Russell Jaslow;6833413]
                Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post

                I don’t know of anyone who argued against using PWR for D3 selections.

                Try again...
                Well, none of the regulars here argued for a transparent process on this site, either.

                Pretty-much the same thing.
                Last edited by Fishman'81; 08-17-2019, 09:24 PM.

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                • #98
                  Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                  Originally posted by altazo View Post
                  Because playing and watching hockey all season long is fun and it can lead to advantages (home ice, favorable opponents) once the really important games happen in conference playoffs and beyond.

                  It’s just common sense after all...
                  Of course the RS is "fun", but how meaningful is it, if it can be negated via a couple of games in March? Every game should mean something, in the context of a full season.

                  Otherwise, why even play them? The current situation absolutely flies in the face of "common-sense", and it's really impossible to build a logical argument to the contrary. Conference-tourament AQ's are a gimmick, period.

                  I understand that I'm USCHO's designated D-3 AH, and I'm OK with that, actually, but I have never read anything even resembling a cogent opinion as to why it's just fine for a 5th place team -over the course of a 20+ game RS- to usurp an NCAA berth from another team which has won the conference RS...

                  (And, I don't expect to, ever.)
                  Last edited by Fishman'81; 08-17-2019, 09:39 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                    Originally posted by altazo
                    You fail to grasp the concept that the conferences themselves determine how to award their AQ. They could choose to award it to the RS champion and not have a tournament at all, like the Big 10 once did for basketball. Have you considered writing to the UCHC rather than here?

                    Look, last year the UCHC was the weakest conference in all of D3 hockey. That’s a one bid conference. When Utica couldn’t take care of their business in their own rink, you blamed it on the fact that Manhattanville’s average age was 8 months older than Utica’s and they were too big and strong. That’s lame sour grapes. Utica was’t left out of NCAA’s because they lost in their conference tournament bThey were left out because they didn’t take advantage of opportunities to beat the limited strong competition they faced out of conference. Those games were in the first half of the season, no?
                    Umm, no...

                    I never once referenced M'ville's age, because I never even bothered to look that up. Please.

                    Had MC won the RS, and a pursuant RS AQ, I would have been OK with that. (20-23 games are better than 4, as a measuring stick, right?)

                    I seem to recall you as an OSU fan.

                    So, say, a Morrisville finishes in the pack in the SUNYAC, then gets white-hot for a couple of weekends, and displaces your Lakers from the NCAA's this coming season. Would you actually think that the RS was a throw-away?

                    I doubt it... The RS exists for a reason, or at least it should.
                    Last edited by Fishman'81; 08-17-2019, 10:31 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                      Umm, no...

                      I never once referenced M'ville's age, because I never even bothered to look that up. Please.

                      Had MC won the RS, and a pursuant RS AQ, I would have been OK with that. (20-23 games are better than 4, as a measuring stick, right?)

                      I seem to recall you as an OSU fan.

                      So, say, a Morrisville finishes in the pack in the SUNYAC, then gets white-hot for a couple of weekends, and displaces your Lakers from the NCAA's this coming season. Would you actually think that the RS was a throw-away?

                      I doubt it... The RS exists for a reason, or at least it should.
                      You absolutely whined about Manhattanville’s age. Now you’re just not telling the truth.

                      Don’t get swept at home by the worst Adrian team in 10 years, and UC maybe had a shot at an at-large. That was the first weekend of the season, so I guess the first half does count, eh?

                      You recall wrong yet again. I’m a SNC alum. In ‘14-‘15 they went 20-5-3 and were left out of the NCAA’s and rightfully so, they failed to win their conference tournament.
                      Last edited by altazo; 08-17-2019, 11:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                        Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                        It's very simple, really.

                        If there's an AQ to be had, use the biggest sample-size available. If you care to play a conference tourney, fine, but weight those results as you would every RS game.
                        In every sport conferences are FREE to choose their method of selecting their champion. Some leagues choose to limit the size of the field in the conference tournament based on season results- 6 of 9 in the SUNYAC, 5 of 9 in the MIAC. Others have allowed all teams to play. Historically the ECAC E - (now the NEHC) included all 8 of their DIII members in. Seeding was based on regular season standings. I recall a painful year in which Norwich lost in the first round to the last seed. So be it.

                        Very few conferences in any division use something other than a tournament. The Ivy used to not have a tournament in basketball for their AQ selection (they were the last to not have a playoff).

                        If a majority of the the schools in the UCHC wanted to use that method they could change their rules.

                        I don't particularly like one-and-done format playoffs, but again that is the choice that has been made. I'd rather see some kind of series format but most leagues don't use that. The situation is not unique to DIII hockey. Could it be changed? Lobby your conference for a change. That is how it can happen. It doesn't come from the NCAA, but from the conferences.
                        2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                        2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                        2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                        2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                          In every sport conferences are FREE to choose their method of selecting their champion. Some leagues choose to limit the size of the field in the conference tournament based on season results- 6 of 9 in the SUNYAC, 5 of 9 in the MIAC. Others have allowed all teams to play. Historically the ECAC E - (now the NEHC) included all 8 of their DIII members in. Seeding was based on regular season standings. I recall a painful year in which Norwich lost in the first round to the last seed. So be it....
                          Cue:
                          If I could turn back the Sands of time...
                          CCT '77 & '78
                          4 kids
                          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                            Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                            In every sport conferences are FREE to choose their method of selecting their champion. Some leagues choose to limit the size of the field in the conference tournament based on season results- 6 of 9 in the SUNYAC, 5 of 9 in the MIAC. Others have allowed all teams to play. Historically the ECAC E - (now the NEHC) included all 8 of their DIII members in. Seeding was based on regular season standings. I recall a painful year in which Norwich lost in the first round to the last seed. So be it.

                            Very few conferences in any division use something other than a tournament. The Ivy used to not have a tournament in basketball for their AQ selection (they were the last to not have a playoff).

                            If a majority of the the schools in the UCHC wanted to use that method they could change their rules.

                            I don't particularly like one-and-done format playoffs, but again that is the choice that has been made. I'd rather see some kind of series format but most leagues don't use that. The situation is not unique to DIII hockey. Could it be changed? Lobby your conference for a change. That is how it can happen. It doesn't come from the NCAA, but from the conferences.
                            OK, but just because any political body lawfully chooses to employ a bad metric, it's still a bad metric, don't you agree?

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2019-20 Schedules

                              Originally posted by altazo View Post
                              You absolutely whined about Manhattanville’s age. Now you’re just not telling the truth.

                              Don’t get swept at home by the worst Adrian team in 10 years, and UC maybe had a shot at an at-large. That was the first weekend of the season, so I guess the first half does count, eh?

                              You recall wrong yet again. I’m a SNC alum. In ‘14-‘15 they went 20-5-3 and were left out of the NCAA’s and rightfully so, they failed to win their conference tournament.
                              Did I b**** this past season? Perhaps I did, but, let's face it, all the better D-3 hockey teams are old by the usual college standards. (Utica, too.)

                              Speaking of Utica, I didn't reference them in this conversation, because that would have been beside the point.

                              The tournament AQ's are D-U-M, dum, was my point. And if you were just fine with SNC being bounced from the NCAA's on the basis of that, well...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                                The tournament AQ's are D-U-M, dum, was my point. And if you were just fine with SNC being bounced from the NCAA's on the basis of that, well...
                                Despite winning 20 games that season, SNC was 0-3 vs. Adrian. So yes, I think I think most people associated with the program expected them to be left out. If they clearly weren’t the best team in their own conference that season, why should they be rewarded with an opportunity to compete for a National Championship? Their only hope was earning that playoff AQ.

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