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NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

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  • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    One problem that I don't think gets adequately discussed with proposals like this is how the current rules really do benefit college hockey in general.

    First, the players are more developed and more talented, so the game should be better.

    But second, and more importantly, the current rules allow a program to develop from one that needs to rely upon the 20 or 21 year old freshmen to compete into a program that can attract the 18 year old freshmen blue chip recruits. The program that I follow, North Dakota, is a prime example of that.

    There is no question that currently North Dakota's program is capable of attracting the highest level of recruit to college hockey, kids that will be first round NHL draft picks. But that wasn't always the case. In fact, in the 1950's and 60's, as the program was growing and developing, North Dakota was frequently lumped in with Denver or similar programs as ones relying upon "overaged" Canadians to fill out their programs and compete. That was true. North Dakota is not in the middle of prime hockey recruiting ground, and without a history they needed to bring in older kids from Canada. But, by doing so and building the program, they can now attract kids who are top flight talent even at 18 or 19.

    I can see other programs doing that as well. We've seen non-traditional programs like Quinnipiac, UMass-Lowell, etc..., maybe rely upon some older recruits as their programs has been building, but may start attracting first round draft pick caliber kids as their program develops a stronger winning tradition.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

    Comment


    • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

      Originally posted by UMD21 View Post
      Why is it when the “blue bloods” are winning championships nobody is in a rage saying college hockey should follow other NCAA sport rules in that drafted players should be ineligible to play college hockey, yet when they aren’t winning here they are blaming it on older college players and crying for rule changes? And Slappy says UMD fans are poor sports... take your midol.
      No one is in a rage, this topic never goes away no matter who at the present time is dominating the landscape, and I myself am not strongly advocating for any changes. I do think it's a legitimate discussion and there are valid arguments to be made on both ends, and I sometimes interject if I see something illogical. Also every program has an agenda so you can climb out of that ivory tower.

      Originally posted by islander98 View Post
      I still don't understand why some think the current situation is a problem? Each school can determine the composition of their team. Everyone plays by the same rules.
      Everyone would play by the same rules if they were changed as well.

      Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
      Not if the kid isn't getting D1 offers until after high school.
      I don't agree that they wouldn't get offers if the rules were changed.

      Comment


      • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

        If we went back and limited to a certain age ... saying 19 years old as a freshman (one year out of high school max) ... don't you think it would actually hurt college hockey. There's a finite amount of kids that can come up and play as 18 year olds. They'd continue to get recruited by the "elite" programs. The same applies to 19. So now you've got the "elites" and the next level down that are recruiting them. IMHO, the next level of player down is then getting recruited by programs that will never have a shot to do anything because there really aren't enough 18/19 year old freshmen ready to play DI hockey. That causes a) a talent problem for college hockey which b) results in a worse NCAA DI experience for viewers.

        Again, this is all IMHO.
        Monty

        2011-2012 NCAA Tournament Participants
        2012-2013 Hockey East Regular Season Champions, Hockey East Tournament Champions, and Frozen Four Participants
        2013-2014 Hockey East Tournament Champions and NCAA Tournament Participants
        2015-2016 NCAA Tournament Participants
        2016-2017 Hockey East Regular Season Co-Champions, Hockey East Tournament Champions and NCAA Tournament Participants

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          Jeebus you small schoolers sure are a bunch of hypocrites. Big schools are the only ones pushing agendas? Lol.

          JD was right. What happens when the big school start to take the older players? The small schools will have nothing to ***** about. Then again, I have faith they'll find something to get up on the cross about. Maybe it’s time to buy some stock in Fastenal.
          What agenda and rule changes are small schools advocating for? These are rules that have been in place for decades, possibly dating back to the beginning of D1 college hockey. It’s the big schools who are trying to change them. The only thing the small schools are doing is calling them out for trying to change the rules to benefit themselves.
          What happens when big schools start to go after older players? I’d call that adaptation. I expect Motzko to start doing that
          I wanna go fast!

          Comment


          • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

            JD was right. What happens when the big school start to take the older players? The small schools will have nothing to ***** about. Then again, I have faith they'll find something to get up on the cross about. Maybe it’s time to buy some stock in Fastenal.
            I've got news for you. The big schools are taking older players. By my count, and looking at Heisenberg's site, between Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, they'll have 11 players coming in this year who will be 20 or 21 by the time their freshman season starts in October. For Minnesota alone, Close (21), Sorenson (20), Meyers (21 in November), McGregor (20) and Moe (20) all fit the bill.

            But the difference is that the big schools use the older kids to fill out rosters (they would never fill one out with an 18 year old who's not ready, but is 18) and to replace kids who were recruited early but didn't pan out. The smaller schools have fewer blue chip players and thus have to rely upon more of the older kids who have played some juniors and are starting to develop.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

            Comment


            • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

              Maybe this whole age-thing is moot. I was surprised to read that roughly 38% of American undergraduate college students are over 25...

              https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

              Comment


              • Originally posted by UMLFan View Post
                Wait, who's complaining?

                The "smaller, non elite schools" have the rules behind them, and it's been that way for years.
                You’re complaining that UML cannot compete with BC & BU unless they recruit 21 year old freshman. I don’t agree and I think Shawn Walsh proved that at Maine. The only reason the top programs are down is due to the top talent leaving after a year or two. Turning college hockey into an older less skilled league is boring to watch. It’s become a very defensive game. College hockey can’t stop the top talent from leaving, but they can make the game more exciting to watch but putting in a maximum age.

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                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                  I've got news for you. The big schools are taking older players. By my count, and looking at Heisenberg's site, between Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, they'll have 11 players coming in this year who will be 20 or 21 by the time their freshman season starts in October. For Minnesota alone, Close (21), Sorenson (20), Meyers (21 in November), McGregor (20) and Moe (20) all fit the bill.

                  But the difference is that the big schools use the older kids to fill out rosters (they would never fill one out with an 18 year old who's not ready, but is 18) and to replace kids who were recruited early but didn't pan out. The smaller schools have fewer blue chip players and thus have to rely upon more of the older kids who have played some juniors and are starting to develop.
                  BC has a 20 year old freshman Mark Hardman coming in this year. You have to take at least two every year imo to compete.

                  Comment


                  • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                    Originally posted by UMLFan View Post
                    Wait, who's complaining?

                    The "smaller, non elite schools" have the rules behind them, and it's been that way for years.
                    And they have won championships recently. Yale and Union, case in point. The only rule the Ivies aren't hamstrung by is age BTW.
                    YALE HOCKEY
                    2013 National Champions

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                    • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                      College hockey is fine the way it is. As soon as the big schools get the maximum age of college hockey players reduced to 23, they'll be the first in line at the rules committee's door trying to allows kids to sign their NLI at age 12.

                      If you really want to fix college hockey, stop the over recruiting. Stop the meaningless verbals. If the kid signs an NLI he should know at that instant what the school is giving him (nothing, 1/2 ride, full ride, etc) and it is locked in. The school will have to honor that even if the kid doesn't make the team. If the kid wants to back out, and go somewhere else then the team is off the hook. But if the team runs out of scholarships to hand out because they over recruit for a certain year, well tough luck. Good luck signing walk-ons for a couple years.

                      I don't know who is dumber - programs that sign a dozen or more kids for a single class year, or the player who signs with a school that already has a dozen or more kids signed for the year they want to land on campus. Every kid believes they won't be the one to get left in the cold but do the math. There are only so many roster spots on game day. You can't play 45 guys, regardless of what you were told when you signed your NLI.

                      Ryan
                      Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
                      https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
                      Originally posted by geezer
                      Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
                      Originally posted by manurespreader
                      ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

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                      • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                        Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
                        If you really want to fix college hockey, stop the over recruiting.
                        I'm constantly amazed to see how many schools have over 30 commitments for the next four seasons already.
                        Monty

                        2011-2012 NCAA Tournament Participants
                        2012-2013 Hockey East Regular Season Champions, Hockey East Tournament Champions, and Frozen Four Participants
                        2013-2014 Hockey East Tournament Champions and NCAA Tournament Participants
                        2015-2016 NCAA Tournament Participants
                        2016-2017 Hockey East Regular Season Co-Champions, Hockey East Tournament Champions and NCAA Tournament Participants

                        Comment


                        • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                          Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
                          College hockey is fine the way it is. As soon as the big schools get the maximum age of college hockey players reduced to 23, they'll be the first in line at the rules committee's door trying to allows kids to sign their NLI at age 12.
                          Lmao okay... The big schools, the ones that actually compete for the star players at the young ages, wanted to get rid of the early recruiting and that's why this recent change made it through. The big schools want to get rid of the ridiculous 25 year old players. And watch, eventually the big schools will win because the real power rests with the few in college hockey. Others will just have to evolve.

                          Comment


                          • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                            There have been no loopholes opening up, teams are not taking older and older players to benefit themselves these have been the same eligibility rules since any on of us can remember so stop trying to change the rules and pretending you’re not doing it in your own self interest. And what if they do change and you still lose?
                            If you want to change the rules to benefit your programs, you should campaign to allow on-campus regional host sites again like at Mariucci, Yost, REA... at least that would only repeal a recent rule change and return it to the old way and have a shred of dignity. When did the host site rules change, 2010? That seems to correlate really well with when the big $$ schools started doing poorly although when Mariucci last hosted in 2009 the Gophers didn’t even make the tournament that year so I guess I see why they are aiming to change the age-old eligibility criteria
                            I wanna go fast!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bonin21 View Post
                              Lmao okay... The big schools, the ones that actually compete for the star players at the young ages, wanted to get rid of the early recruiting and that's why this recent change made it through. The big schools want to get rid of the ridiculous 25 year old players. And watch, eventually the big schools will win because the real power rests with the few in college hockey. Others will just have to evolve.
                              I was curious about who was really behind this change because I saw people on mgoblog whining about it being a small school effort. But then Michigan fans will whine about literally anything rather than blaming their own program for their shortcomings.

                              I do enjoy how you continue to call 25 year old players "ridiculous" despite all the evidence to the contrary. Maybe if you say it enough someone might believe you.

                              Comment


                              • Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

                                Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                                College sports should be for college age people..thats 18-23.
                                Per the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center in 2015, the fall 24+ first-time student cohort in 2009 was 19.9%. While that number ebbs and flows with the economy — when times are tougher, older students' enrollment rates drop — but 1-in-5 isn't nothing. The data further down are somewhat interesting, too.

                                My alma mater has plenty of Students over the Traditional Age, and they aren't all over-age hockey players (although on average, 4-5 a year are).

                                GFM <— HTH, HAND

                                [Addendum: yep, I'm aware that other folks posted links. Dang-it, I worked hard to find a study that I liked!!! And I was a traditional student, then a failed grad student a couple of times, then a failed second-bachelors student at 33 ... glad to be back to work.]
                                Last edited by gfmorris; 04-25-2019, 11:23 AM. Reason: Thought I'd provide context...
                                Geof F. Morris
                                UAH BSE MAE 2002
                                UAHHockey.com

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