Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
    That doesn't make it okay in any form.
    It makes it shallow transphobic concern trolling. "I support trans people and all, but won't someone think of the sports!"

    Comment


    • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

      Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
      It makes it shallow transphobic concern trolling. "I support trans people and all, but won't someone think of the sports!"
      You are simply not understanding the question(s).

      Can a person who simply IDs as the other gender enter that other gender's sport (no physical changes)?
      Concerning physical changes, how much has to change to enter that other gender's sport? This would include outer physical attributes as well as internal ones (hormones/etc).
      Where will those lines be drawn?
      What if the things one has to take to make a full switch to the other gender falls under the "Banned Substances" list of a sport?

      I think it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
      Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
      Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

      Comment


      • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

        It will play out.

        You may not realize this but concerns about this have been cynically used as a way to stoke fear and resentment against trans people. It's a little like saying "we should analyze racial differences in cranial capacity." I mean, sure, we can do that. But please be aware that 99% of the people who bring cranial capacity up have a very specific political agenda.

        Let me put it in a way you may be more sympathetic to:

        Studies have shown that people favoring gun rights also tend to react with greater stimulation of the amygdala when confronted with an ambiguously dangerous situation. This suggests that gun rights should perhaps not be uniform, but should be limited in precisely those instances in which people are more assertive in the need/desirability to possess firearms. Obviously this is a politically fraught thesis. I think it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
        Last edited by Kepler; 07-22-2019, 10:44 AM.
        Cornell University
        National Champion 1967, 1970
        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

        Comment


        • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          It will play out.

          You may not realize this but concerns about this have been cynically used as a way to stoke fear and resentment against trans people. It's a little like saying "we should analyze racial differences in cranial capacity." I mean, sure, we can do that. But please be aware that 98% of the people who bring cranial capacity up have a very specific political agenda.
          I am aware, hence me making it clear that is not what *I* am doing. I am genuinely curious. It's a complex issue.
          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

          Comment


          • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

            Originally posted by The Rube View Post
            I am aware, hence me making it clear that is not what *I* am doing. I am genuinely curious. It's a complex issue.
            The guys who wrote The Bell Curve were genuinely curious, too. Was that a bad idea? Yeah, probably.

            "Objective research" along lines suggested by bigoted pre-conceptions, while theoretically well within the scientific method, is also generally speaking a bad idea. If nothing else untangling the public conception of both the research and the results is a public affairs nightmare, and designing experiments which are methodologically sound and don't run the risk of looking like Phrenology is 50 years also starts to look like a marginal return on the effort expended.

            There is nothing wrong with an idea, in principle. "Political conservatism is correlated with, and perhaps either explanatory of or a symptom indicating a lack of ethics or intelligence" is, indeed, a testable hypothesis. It may even be intuitively accurate. But I'm not sure that's the hill you want to die on.
            Last edited by Kepler; 07-22-2019, 10:53 AM.
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              It will play out.

              You may not realize this but concerns about this have been cynically used as a way to stoke fear and resentment against trans people. It's a little like saying "we should analyze racial differences in cranial capacity." I mean, sure, we can do that. But please be aware that 99% of the people who bring cranial capacity up have a very specific political agenda.

              Let me put it in a way you may be more sympathetic to:

              Studies have shown that people favoring gun rights also tend to react with greater stimulation of the amygdala when confronted with an ambiguously dangerous situation. This suggests that gun rights should perhaps not be uniform, but should be limited in precisely those instances in which people are more assertive in the need/desirability to possess firearms. Obviously this is a politically fraught thesis. I think it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
              My wife is a runner. Will never win anything more than the local 5k or 10k with 200 entries, maybe occasionally place in an age group for races with slightly bigger fields. She has qualified for Boston several times.

              She understands that men's races/categories=open field and women's races are not because of the inherent biological differences. It's not that people would claim to be transgender just to win the race, but transgender females, especially pre surgery and pre hormonal treatment, would have an advantage competing in the women's categories against others. Testosterone is an amazing thing. It's the sole reason high school boys teams can beat high level professional women's teams.

              There will eventually be an Olympic level athlete like Jenner who transitions while still competing. Where is the line that keeps it fair for the other competitors?
              Last edited by unofan; 07-22-2019, 11:25 AM.

              Comment


              • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                Originally posted by unofan View Post
                My wife is a marathon runner. Will never win anything more than the local 5k with 200 entries, maybe occasionally place in an age group for slightly bigger races.

                She understands that men's races/categories=open field and women's races are not because of the inherent biological differences. It's not that people would claim to be transgender just to win the race, but transgender females, especially pre surgery and pre hormonal treatment, would have an advantage competing in the women's categories against others. Testosterone is an amazing thing. It's the reason high school boys teams can beat high level professional women's teams.
                Warroad HS Boys team beat the US Women's Ice Hockey team in their prep-games for the last winter Olyimpics.
                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                Comment


                • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                  I understand that this discussion sounds trans-phobic, but I'm genuinely curious to see how the issue evolves over time. And again the hardline stance pertains ONLY to "elite" competition.

                  As UNO mentioned, testosterone is a hell of a performance enhancer for just about anything. Honest question: Is there a single sport (w/ objective timing/scoring, no judges) out there where a Women's World Record eclipses the Men's? Honest Question #2: Would East German female athletes from the 70s and 80s pass today's trans-gender screenings? That alone should show what testosterone alone can do.

                  I will say too that this seems to be another example of a case where you're 100% with or 100% against something as a whole. There is no grey area. I'm an A-hole apparently because I don't want a "new" form of cheating to become prevalent in sports. Forget the other 99.98% of stuff that I support. I'm an a-hole all the way because I formed a hard, unpopular stance on this one thing

                  Edit to add: What is the more likely scenario:

                  - Pedophile/sexual predator using gender neutral bathrooms to gain access to their victims?
                  - Obsessive sports influencers push an athlete to compete under the opposite sex (for reasons mentioned above I can guarantee this will be Male to Female) in order to win?

                  Both COULD happen. But in my mind it's night/day as to which one is LIKELY to happen.
                  Last edited by RaceBoarder; 07-22-2019, 12:10 PM.
                  It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

                  Go Cats!!! GO BLACKHAWKS!

                  Cuck the Fubs... Let's Go WHITE SOX!!!

                  Wildcat Born, Wildcat Bred....

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    One of the open questions about Republican strategy is whether any of it is intended to reach outside their killing jar or whether it's all just incendiaries to keep the home hate fires burning and the effect on the free world is incidental.

                    Cruz is a classic example. Although nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is he is not a moron. Yet he continually relies on asinine tropes and rock stupid narratives. Does he know they are stupid? Up until recently I just assumed Republicans like Cruz cynically peddled insanity/stupidity to their base in order to keep the votes and money flowing. God knows it works. But I'm starting to suspect he actually doesn't understand that what he is saying is stupid. Ideology is incredibly strong and can warp a brain to the point of unusability.
                    I always likened it to literature. (or any type of art really) I read "Grapes of Wrath" and it bores the [bleep] out of me and I get zero of what makes it great. Others can speak for hours on end about a specific chapter, the symbolism in the words and the poetics of the language. They talk about the historical aspects and who the characters remind them of in their lives. They have an understanding I just dont have.

                    I think they understands the bare minimum of the context of what they are saying a lot of the time. They know basics, they know their sycophants eat it up and they know it keeps them in power. I think a lot of them have no clue beyond the surface though. They, like their Orange King, act out of gut reaction. There isnt a strategy behind, no reasoning or understanding. They throw around words and phrases and have zero clue what they even mean. I mean Jesus branding your enemies as Communists? What the heck year is this? (we wont get into the irony of a party in bed with a Soviet Style Leader branding others Communists) They equate Communism to Socialism and use them interchangeably and I think, to many of them, these are actually the same thing.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      I always likened it to literature. (or any type of art really) I read "Grapes of Wrath" and it bores the [bleep] out of me and I get zero of what makes it great. Others can speak for hours on end about a specific chapter, the symbolism in the words and the poetics of the language. They talk about the historical aspects and who the characters remind them of in their lives. They have an understanding I just dont have.
                      I'm with you on GoW BTW. I love slow, cerebral books but no, it's just f-cking horrible. Steinbeck in general is way overrated. Cannery Row is beautiful. The rest is bulk postage, especially GoW. (My IWW lifetime membership has now been rescinded.)

                      You can write endless, symbolic literature and still have a wonderful story (Tolstoy, Melville, Dostoevsky, Hawthorne). Steinbeck for whatever reason doesn't do it for me. Neither does Balzac, who everybody is supposed to love, too.
                      Last edited by Kepler; 07-22-2019, 12:11 PM.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        The guys who wrote The Bell Curve were genuinely curious, too. Was that a bad idea? Yeah, probably.

                        "Objective research" along lines suggested by bigoted pre-conceptions, while theoretically well within the scientific method, is also generally speaking a bad idea. If nothing else untangling the public conception of both the research and the results is a public affairs nightmare, and designing experiments which are methodologically sound and don't run the risk of looking like Phrenology is 50 years also starts to look like a marginal return on the effort expended.

                        There is nothing wrong with an idea, in principle. "Political conservatism is correlated with, and perhaps either explanatory of or a symptom indicating a lack of ethics or intelligence" is, indeed, a testable hypothesis. It may even be intuitively accurate. But I'm not sure that's the hill you want to die on.
                        He is just saying it will interesting to see how the rules change to deal with the new normal. I agree...

                        It isnt like he is saying trans people shouldnt compete...he is just wondering aloud how sports will deal with it as we learn more about various changes. Look at his questions again they arent even controversial.

                        We on the Left need to turn the dial down a little bit. We are on high alert for anything that possibly seems offensive. We dont need to be at "11" all the time. Otherwise we are no better than people we are fighting to stop.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                          Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
                          The sports stuff cracks me up. I constantly hear how inferior women are and that no one wants to watch their sports yet a bunch of dudes are yelling about trans ruining women’s sports
                          I mean there's a lot of money in womens' sports!

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                            We on the Left need to turn the dial down a little bit. We are on high alert for anything that possibly seems offensive. We dont need to be at "11" all the time. Otherwise we are no better than people we are fighting to stop.
                            Thank you for cis-splaining what matters and how we should talk about it.

                            Perhaps you'd like to white-splain about blacks later.

                            In the interim your concern has been noted and logged.
                            Last edited by Kepler; 07-22-2019, 12:26 PM.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              It isnt like he is saying trans people shouldnt compete...he is just wondering aloud how sports will deal with it as we learn more about various changes. Look at his questions again they arent even controversial.
                              Of all the things in the world to wonder aloud about, I wonder why this one keeps coming up...

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

                                If Handy is telling us to dial it back, I'm going to find 12 on the dial.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X