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  • Originally posted by ChickHicks86 View Post
    ARM makes a good point that 5, 5, 6, 7, and 7 are not very good numbers to have in the goals against column over the last few games. There were some empty-netters and garbage time goals sprinkled in there, but certainly OSU misses the stability and confidence that Sauve brought at the goaltender position. The goalies (and really the skaters too) on the roster now have shown they are capable of playing at a high level, but it is finding that consistency on a weekly basis that seems to be elusive. But, as Blackbeard has said on the UMD thread, your goaltender can't score goals (though the Northern Michigan men's team might argue), and even when Sauve was in net for the Buckeyes, their best wins weren't when she stood on her head and made 50 saves, but when the rest of the team found ways to put the puck in the net.
    One could argue that this team is stronger than last year’s team. They are a year older and have a few solid freshmen that have played extremely well. The goaltenders will grow into their roles and when one goes through a rough patch, hopefully the back up plays well. They do have big shoes to fill and have done very well this season for the most part. I listened to your coach’s post game presser and she might be better served by focusing on what the team needs to work on rather than singling out the goaltenders. Their confidence is likely fragile right now and it helps to know that the coach is on your side. Not saying she isn’t but comments like “they scored everytime they came down the ice” are not going to help. The Buckeyes are a good team that is in a slump. They will work their way out of it.

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    • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

      Originally posted by ChickHicks86 View Post
      The third periods have to be taken with a grain of salt with the games out of hand, but really Ohio State stood on pretty even ground for all but two decisive periods this weekend (1st period on Friday, 2nd period on Saturday).
      I disagree with this. Minnesota was substantially the better team in five of the six periods on the weekend. The third periods weren't even in any way other than having an aggregate 1-0 score. The Gophers' objective wasn't to score some more; it was to kill the clock, and they did so effectively. On Saturday, the Buckeyes made this extremely easy, but even on Friday, they managed only five shots in the third. A full comeback was probably never in the cards in either game, but there was never even a whiff of one.

      That leaves us with the second period on Friday. OSU scored two of their three goals in the series, but gave up three. Minnesota controlled the play for the most part, and when the horn went, the Gophers were much closer to a victory than they had been twenty minutes earlier.

      The balance of play over two days may not have quite matched the 14-3 scoreline, but Ohio State shouldn't kid themselves that it was a whole lot closer than that.

      I'm the wiseguy who suggested to osualum86 after the series in Minneapolis that the Buckeyes are not as good this year as they were last year. I stand by that. I don't have a good feel for what is contributing to that, but it seems pretty clear to me that it's true.

      One thing I find interesting is that, in each of the last two years, OSU's W/L record is better than you would predict based upon net goal scoring. I mentioned last year that they were overperforming their expected winning percentage, and they're doing it again, just from a much lower baseline. Even before this weekend, the Buckeyes had a negative goal differential (or a GS/GA ratio less than one, if you prefer) in league play and were 9-7. At this point, we're still talking about a small enough number of games that it's probably just a fluke. OSU's record in one goal games has been ridiculous: 8-4 last year, and 9-4 so far this year. (In fairness, you really need to go through and eliminate empty net goals to get an accurate take on record in one goal games, but I'm currently sitting in the Detroit airport waiting for my connecting flight, so quick and dirty is going to have to do.) That's not sustainable, and doesn't bode well for them trying to fight back into the NCAA tournament.

      But it also seems like, when things go wrong for them, the roof completely falls in. Again, I have no idea why, but it should be kind of worrisome.

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      • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

        Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
        #2 Star: (tie)Sophie Skarzynski, Minnesota; and Patti Marshall, Minnesota
        Saturday was the best game that these two have played this year. They were great.

        Comment


        • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

          Originally posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
          I listened to your coach’s post game presser and she might be better served by focusing on what the team needs to work on rather than singling out the goaltenders. Their confidence is likely fragile right now and it helps to know that the coach is on your side. Not saying she isn’t but comments like “they scored everytime they came down the ice” are not going to help.
          Muzerall is extremely competitive and I'm sure she was speaking out of frustration, and quite possibly came down publicly a little too hard on her goaltenders, for whom confidence is very important. On the other hand they play a crucial part in any team's success, and having watched both games I don't believe on this particular weekend they held up their end of the bargain. Probably the low point was when Taylor Heise was able to score yesterday on a slapshot from outside the blue line. This just cannot be allowed to happen in any level of hockey.

          Still, I would agree that some things are better left said in the locker room, or in this case maybe in a private conversation.
          Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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          • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

            A couple of followups on my part in response to a number of the aforementioned things (hence my lack of specific quotes):

            1) I agree with Still Eeyore that Ohio State is not as good as last year. As previously mentioned, they definitely miss Sauve in goal, but I think that the loss of Iafallo, Sadek, and Spring cannot be understated. Sadek might not have always showed up in the box score, but she was a constant on the blue line who could bail people out if they made mistakes. Iafallo scored a lot of timely goals, something this years OSU squad has struggled to do. And Spring was a model of consistency who again might not wow you with stats, but she was a reliable player who made the girls playing with her better. On top of the losses, just returning players isn't that meaningful if they don't get better. There are of course exceptions (Maltais for example continues to impress), but overall it seems to me that more players than not haven't gotten noticeably better, and some I would say have had their play decline. I won't get into specifics / speculation on that front, but player development is the key to maintaining success at the collegiate level with the inevitable annual roster turnover that occurs.

            2) D2D and Puckdrop14 mentioned the importance of confidence with the goaltenders, and I would venture to say that applies to this OSU team as a whole. To me it seems, especially lately, that the Buckeyes are playing tense and afraid of making mistakes, and when things start to go poorly, there's a sense of "here we go again" and things get out of hand quickly. I firmly believe that what this team needs is some stability and someone to believe in / encourage them. They don't need to reminded of their mistakes (everyone who knows hockey knows the other team shouldn't score from the blue line, for example), but instead need to be reminded of how good they really can be and have indeed shown flashes of this year. There's definitely a time and place for constructive criticism in the film room and during the week, but come game time, Ohio State needs positivity and confidence.

            3) Big picture wise, I don't think anyone, even with scarlet and gray tinted glasses, can honestly say the Ohio State program is anywhere close to the level of Wisconsin or Minnesota right now. On the flip side, I would argue nobody is in that rarified air (though as disclaimer I haven't seen Northeastern or Princeton play this season, and the Tigers did seem to be competitive in Madison). That being said, there's no reason Ohio State couldn't stake a really solid claim to being the clear #3 in the WCHA, and be a player on the national stage. I think the biggest thing that separates the contenders from the pretenders in this regard is a team's ability to beat teams below them in the standings. Wisconsin and Minnesota don't go out and get swept by Bemidji, or even Duluth. I would argue the biggest goal for this year's Ohio State team moving forward should be to win all of the games they are favored in (so probably 6 games), and that in itself should build some of the confidence they need to compete in and maybe steal enough games from the top tier teams to make a run at the NCAAs.
            2005 Piston Cup Champion

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            • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

              Originally posted by D2D View Post
              Probably the low point was when Taylor Heise was able to score yesterday on a slapshot from outside the blue line. This just cannot be allowed to happen in any level of hockey.
              But it does. I've seen both Noora Räty and Amanda Leveille, the two best goalies in Gophers history, get beat on shots from the blue line or beyond, in NCAA Tournament games no less. With yesterday's long-range goal happening so soon after goal No. 2, the goalie likely was looking back a bit too much.

              Ironically, Muzerall is more from the Shannon Miller coaching mold in that her teams often feed on emotion to be successful, whereas Nadine played and coached under people at the "U" who aim more for the even-keel approach. UMD under Miller had down periods along with the highs, and I think it is what we've seen from Muzerall's Buckeyes.
              "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
              And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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              • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                Originally posted by ARM View Post
                But it does. I've seen both Noora Räty and Amanda Leveille, the two best goalies in Gophers history, get beat on shots from the blue line or beyond, in NCAA Tournament games no less. With yesterday's long-range goal happening so soon after goal No. 2, the goalie likely was looking back a bit too much.
                All I was trying to say is that when a puck goes in from that distance, it's a very soft goal, and it just shouldn't happen. This one was from roughly five feet beyond the blue line, and the goalie had a very clear view of the puck. But you may be right, the goalie might have been thinking about the one that got by her just moments before. Still, I don't think there is any doubt that she would like to have that one back.

                Originally posted by ARM View Post
                Ironically, Muzerall is more from the Shannon Miller coaching mold in that her teams often feed on emotion to be successful, whereas Nadine played and coached under people at the "U" who aim more for the even-keel approach. UMD under Miller had down periods along with the highs, and I think it is what we've seen from Muzerall's Buckeyes.
                Part of learning to become a successful head coach, I think, is knowing when and how often to push the buttons, and which ones to push at the right time.
                Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                • Originally posted by ARM View Post
                  Ironically, Muzerall is more from the Shannon Miller coaching mold in that her teams often feed on emotion to be successful, whereas Nadine played and coached under people at the "U" who aim more for the even-keel approach. UMD under Miller had down periods along with the highs, and I think it is what we've seen from Muzerall's Buckeyes.
                  Nadine has said in the past that she appreciates my visits to OSU Ice Rink as a strong supporter of my team. After I sang the Rouser 16 times over the two games (including postgame each night to acknowledge a Gopher win), I may not be welcome in future seasons. (I didn't stick around long enough to ask her.)

                  I do know that I'm now considered a tormentor of little Buckeye fans.
                  Give blood... Play Gopher Hockey!
                  Men's National Championships: 1974, 1976, 1979, 2002, 2003
                  Women's National Championships: 2000, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016

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                  • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                    Originally posted by ChickHicks86 View Post
                    A couple of followups on my part in response to a number of the aforementioned things (hence my lack of specific quotes):
                    Yup. Too many good comments to quote them all. I appreciate everyone's contributions. Will use select quotes as way to toss in my two cents.

                    1) I agree with Still Eeyore that Ohio State is not as good as last year. As previously mentioned, they definitely miss Sauve in goal, but I think that the loss of Iafallo, Sadek, and Spring cannot be understated. Sadek might not have always showed up in the box score, but she was a constant on the blue line who could bail people out if they made mistakes. Iafallo scored a lot of timely goals, something this years OSU squad has struggled to do. And Spring was a model of consistency who again might not wow you with stats, but she was a reliable player who made the girls playing with her better. On top of the losses, just returning players isn't that meaningful if they don't get better. There are of course exceptions (Maltais for example continues to impress), but overall it seems to me that more players than not haven't gotten noticeably better, and some I would say have had their play decline. I won't get into specifics / speculation on that front, but player development is the key to maintaining success at the collegiate level with the inevitable annual roster turnover that occurs.
                    Great points, especially with regard to the departed Buckeyes.

                    But I believe most posters are leaving out a big part of the story. The January 2019 Badgers are better than last season; the January 2019 Gophers are much better than last season. I further suspect that competing with each other is making those two teams even better. Both teams had a significant influx of talent last Fall; both teams now seem to be jelling nicely. By comparison, anyone improving less rapidly looks worse. And if you're slumping, much worse.

                    Originally posted by ARM View Post
                    Ironically, Muzerall is more from the Shannon Miller coaching mold in that her teams often feed on emotion to be successful, whereas Nadine played and coached under people at the "U" who aim more for the even-keel approach. UMD under Miller had down periods along with the highs, and I think it is what we've seen from Muzerall's Buckeyes.
                    The "Business Trip" approach works well if you have superior talent. If you're trying to pull upsets -- even mild upsets -- a little emotion can go along way. You are correct about the ups and downs of the emotional approach. No one can maintain a fever pitch over the course of 30+ games.

                    I'll buy that it's a little ironic in Nadine's case. But I don't think Muzerall is in the habit of crossing lines that Miller was willing to cross. No fake flag desecration stories, to the best of my knowledge.

                    Originally posted by D2D View Post
                    All I was trying to say is that when a puck goes in from that distance, it's a very soft goal, and it just shouldn't happen. This one was from roughly five feet beyond the blue line, and the goalie had a very clear view of the puck. But you may be right, the goalie might have been thinking about the one that got by her just moments before. Still, I don't think there is any doubt that she would like to have that one back.
                    As a general principle, of course you're correct. But if you had seen the Heise shot in person, I believe you'd be a little more forgiving of the keeper. The pace and placement of the shot certainly surprised me.

                    I do agree with ARM that the Buckeye keeper was a little shell-shocked from the 2nd Gopher Goal. And yes, D-1 doesn't allow time for "recovery" from such setbacks. But another part of the story is that the shot was a smart play by Heise. Goalies are human; they can be caught off-guard in such situations. Perhaps it's not common, but it isn't rare either. Sometimes longshots pay off, pun intended.

                    Part of learning to become a successful head coach, I think, is knowing when and how often to push the buttons, and which ones to push at the right time.
                    Absolutely. And it's a difficult art to master. But if you're giving up goals in bunches, different buttons need to be pushed. CH86 also made this point well when discussing positivity & confidence.
                    Last edited by pgb-ohio; 01-29-2019, 09:50 PM.

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                    • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                      Originally posted by ChickHicks86 View Post
                      A couple of followups on my part in response to a number of the aforementioned things (hence my lack of specific quotes):

                      1) I agree with Still Eeyore that Ohio State is not as good as last year. As previously mentioned, they definitely miss Sauve in goal
                      I don't think they miss Sauve as much as you would like to believe. Before the current five game slide Brandlei had a 1.61/.943 line - pretty solid. Much of the onus is on Muzzeral, take your starting freshman goalie aside and (re)build her confidence. She got you this far, reassure her that she is the starting goalie for this team. Sauve has a lot of confidence, especially when her team is ahead. I witnessed a couple games where she removed herself after giving up a fourth (or more) goal in a game - I have never seen that! (Okay, I have; youth house hockey) On one occasion Muzz asked her what she doing at the bench, and sent her back in. My point is, the numbers are similar to date: Brandlei - 2.15/.928; Sauve 1.76/.930, but this year's OSU team may have a little less off ice (and maybe on too) goalie distractions.

                      I do agree that every player is gripping their stick a little to hard the last couple of weeks - seems like panic mode. They need to relax, have fun, and the wins will come.
                      Last edited by arenalife; 01-28-2019, 08:01 AM.

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                      • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                        Originally posted by D2D View Post
                        Muzerall is extremely competitive and I'm sure she was speaking out of frustration, and quite possibly came down publicly a little too hard on her goaltenders, for whom confidence is very important. On the other hand they play a crucial part in any team's success, and having watched both games I don't believe on this particular weekend they held up their end of the bargain. Probably the low point was when Taylor Heise was able to score yesterday on a slapshot from outside the blue line. This just cannot be allowed to happen in any level of hockey.

                        Still, I would agree that some things are better left said in the locker room, or in this case maybe in a private conversation.
                        Muzerall has too much self preservation to have ever said anything like that to, or about, Sauve.

                        I watched bits and pieces. Goalies were only at fault for a couple.

                        OSU is very weak up the middle. It was a shooting zone between the hash marks in both games. When you give up the slot that easy to talented players with that much time they will pick corners all night long. This is where Iafallo is missed.

                        The strong side D was always getting caught in the offensive end. I lost count of how many odd man rushes Minnesota had but it was way too many.

                        Everything went right last year for OSU. Timely goals. Timely goaltending. Olympic year. Except for Dunne, not sure how many others could even crack the Minnesota roster. Obviously Maltais, but not top 6.

                        If I read the stats and gamesheets correctly, the only plus OSU players in WCHA play are 2 defense and the forth line. With another date against Wisconsin. That will never get it done.

                        As for Minnesota. Wow. Heise is unbelievable. Say what you will but that was one a heck of a shot from the blue line. Zumwinkle toyed with the D. The last goal on Saturday was poetry in motion. Based on early season play I was picking Wisconsin but I have changed my vote to Minnesota.

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                        • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                          Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
                          As long as you were singing the authorized versions of school songs and simply winning spelling bees, I highly doubt you did anything inappropriate. Unless the tykes were literally at their first sporting event, they've undoubtedly seen and heard worse. Then again, I've haven't heard from the complainants yet. Maybe I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the charges.
                          There was a little girl on Saturday, probably about eight years old, four rows in front of us, who turned and yelled, "Sucks," each time we chanted, "Minnesota!" Her timing was impeccable. She's probably ready to graduate to Michigan games.

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                          • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                            Originally posted by osualum86 View Post
                            In fact, Ohio State sets in 8th in the PairWise now, which basically means they are on the outside looking in as the CHA Champion will get an auto-bid and take that 8th spot away from Ohio State... The problem is, wins over St. Cloud and Bemidji and whoever we end up hosting in the first round of the WCHA Playoffs are not going to move the needle regarding the PairWise, so what it is now going to come down to now is we will have to win the WCHA Tournament and get the league's auto-bid to get in.
                            The thing you guys have to realize and remember is that the teams around you in the Pairwise play in the same two conferences, and have games against one another coming up. The Hockey East teams: BU and Northeastern play one another in the Beanpot, with the winner likely (?) then playing BC; at worst, either BC or BU gets one more loss. And then all three play their conference tournament, where two of the three will pick up another loss. Likewise, and even more so, for the ECAC teams: Clarkson has a game against Cornell, one again Colgate, and two against Princeton still to play; that's a fair number of losses to be doled out to some team or another. And then they play their conference tournament where two of the three get a loss.

                            Yes, unless OSU moots the question by winning the WCHA tournament, they have at least one more loss coming. But that is far from the only way they get into the NCAAs. Lots of hockey left to play, lots of twists and turns left to see in the Pairwise.

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                            • Originally posted by Still Eeyore View Post
                              There was a little girl on Saturday, probably about eight years old, four rows in front of us, who turned and yelled, "Sucks," each time we chanted, "Minnesota!" Her timing was impeccable. She's probably ready to graduate to Michigan games.
                              What a special little girl. I'm sure her parents were very proud of her. If I had yelled out that word at that age I can assure you my parents would not have let me yell it out for a second repetition let alone every time the Minnesota chant happened. But great story.

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                              • Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2018-19

                                Originally posted by dd17 View Post
                                ...
                                Say what you will but that was one a heck of a shot from the blue line...
                                IMO, this is one of the most exciting plays in hockey, somebody letting loose a clapper on the fly between the red and blue line. I wasn’t there to see if such was the case with Heise, but I’m hoping more women learn to do this, it is a very effective and exciting play. One time I do remember it, is Stephanie Anderson of the Whitecaps scoring on a Gopher goalie. Despite being against my team , I couldn't help but applaud.

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