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Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

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  • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

    As always, the number of people gaming the system is a fraction of the number you think. The cost of policing and productivity because more people are sick working at lower productivity is all much worse than having separate days.

    “Some incentive” he says dismissively. Every study shows there’s a fairly strong incentive to work sick. People always do what benefits them the most. It’s a law of nature. If they can work at 40%, still get paid for 8 hours, and get a vacation day, they will. They will also get others sick and now you have multiple people working at 40% instead of losing a single person for a day or two.
    Code:
    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
    Originally posted by SanTropez
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Originally posted by Kepler
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

    Comment


    • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      Workday handles it perfectly fine at my company. Tell them they’re full of ****.
      We have Workday also, and it's split out. I get 5 weeks (based on 20 years with the company), plus 3 floaters, and a sick time number I can't remember. No carry over for vacation, but we can carry over sick time to a certain limit.

      And federal FMLA leave is unpaid, to respond to an earlier post.

      Comment


      • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        But the reason for the switch was I wanted to do away with the whole charade of trying to evaluate if they were "sick." We had employees who called in sick but were then seen at the grocery store that same day. I always thought it was just a farce.
        Particularly when you get towards the end of the year, and people try to sneak in unused sick time as personal days.

        Comment


        • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          As always, the number of people gaming the system is a fraction of the number you think. The cost of policing and productivity because more people are sick working at lower productivity is all much worse than having separate days.

          “Some incentive” he says dismissively. Every study shows there’s a fairly strong incentive to work sick. People always do what benefits them the most. It’s a law of nature. If they can work at 40%, still get paid for 8 hours, and get a vacation day, they will. They will also get others sick and now you have multiple people working at 40% instead of losing a single person for a day or two.
          All I can tell you is the employees like it better. In the past if they approached Christmas and hadn't had to use all their sick days, there was obviously "some incentive" to call in sick or simply lose the days. Now they can just use it as personal time off with no illness faking required.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

          Comment


          • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            All I can tell you is the employees like it better. In the past if they approached Christmas and hadn't had to use all their sick days, there was obviously "some incentive" to call in sick or simply lose the days. Now they can just use it as personal time off with no illness faking required.
            Right, because your employees share their true opinions with you. Another universal law of nature: They don't. People generally don't bite the hand that feeds them. Plus you've never given them the opportunity for unlimited sick time. You haven't offered them a true choice. You have dictated policy between two mediocre or bad choices. I've worked in four systems: No sick time, allotted sick time + allotted vacation, PTO, and effectively unlimited sick time + allotted vacation. My previous company converted from sick+vacation to PTO. It sucked. I didn't tell them I hated that idea because it was a small company and I had a job. I'm sure people told them, including me, that they liked the increased flexibility because in theory, it is better. But when it comes down to deciding whether I should come in sick and potentially infect other people, I decided that was the company's cost, not mine. Do I eat my vacation or go in sick? I will go in sick 100% of the time.

            PTO might be favored by both parties in the right circumstances: Young, healthy workforce; fewer infants at home; low-paying jobs where vacations are an unobtainable luxury. My coworkers love the unlimited sick time here because they don't have to decide whether they come in sick or have to figure out how to care for a sick child and use vacation time instead. There is no deciding.

            My current employer offers effectively unlimited sick time. You would think an employer as large as mine couldn't afford all these people gaming the system. You would think that it would scale accordingly and would still cost them the same percentage of employee-days if the system is gamed. The giant corporation understands that PTO is ultimately a bad deal for the employer. It encourages lower productivity employees to come in, potentially prolonging their illness because they aren't focused on their health while also possibly infecting other employees, further decreasing productivity. Why would a corporation offer such a giant honeypot if it's easily and often abused? Because it saves the company money and improves overall health and productivity. Plus, with unlimited sick time, there is no incentive to use it or lose it. It's not viewed as accrued benefits. It's just a benefit.

            I have yet to ever come across a person who called in sick and faked it. Does it happen? I guarantee it does, just not at the rate you think. Then again, the average conservative also thinks drug testing welfare recipients is a good policy. So I guess that makes sense.

            Edit: On the other hand, giant corporations are supremely efficient at ****ing their employees over the table without them knowing, so maybe I'm just getting screwed and I have no idea. Also likely.
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
              Right, because your employees share their true opinions with you. Another universal law of nature: They don't. People generally don't bite the hand that feeds them. Plus you've never given them the opportunity for unlimited sick time. You haven't offered them a true choice. You have dictated policy between two mediocre or bad choices. I've worked in four systems: No sick time, allotted sick time + allotted vacation, PTO, and effectively unlimited sick time + allotted vacation. My previous company converted from sick+vacation to PTO. It sucked. I didn't tell them I hated that idea because it was a small company and I had a job. I'm sure people told them, including me, that they liked the increased flexibility because in theory, it is better. But when it comes down to deciding whether I should come in sick and potentially infect other people, I decided that was the company's cost, not mine. Do I eat my vacation or go in sick? I will go in sick 100% of the time.

              PTO might be favored by both parties in the right circumstances: Young, healthy workforce; fewer infants at home; low-paying jobs where vacations are an unobtainable luxury. My coworkers love the unlimited sick time here because they don't have to decide whether they come in sick or have to figure out how to care for a sick child and use vacation time instead. There is no deciding.

              My current employer offers effectively unlimited sick time. You would think an employer as large as mine couldn't afford all these people gaming the system. You would think that it would scale accordingly and would still cost them the same percentage of employee-days if the system is gamed. The giant corporation understands that PTO is ultimately a bad deal for the employer. It encourages lower productivity employees to come in, potentially prolonging their illness because they aren't focused on their health while also possibly infecting other employees, further decreasing productivity. Why would a corporation offer such a giant honeypot if it's easily and often abused? Because it saves the company money and improves overall health and productivity. Plus, with unlimited sick time, there is no incentive to use it or lose it. It's not viewed as accrued benefits. It's just a benefit.

              I have yet to ever come across a person who called in sick and faked it. Does it happen? I guarantee it does, just not at the rate you think. Then again, the average conservative also thinks drug testing welfare recipients is a good policy. So I guess that makes sense.

              Edit: On the other hand, giant corporations are supremely efficient at ****ing their employees over the table without them knowing, so maybe I'm just getting screwed and I have no idea. Also likely.
              Cool story.

              Actually, I haven't even asked my employees whether they like the new system or not, so I don't know if they'd lie to me. All I know is that the reason we made the switch is that I thought the whole idea of someone calling in sick, then going through the embarrassment of being seen that day in the grocery store, was a charade, so we asked them before we made the change whether they would prefer a PTO method, or the old way, and to a person they said PTO. And, they've never come to me and asked to go back to the old way.
              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

              Comment


              • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                Isn't it great when someone thinks they know more about how to run your business than you do?

                Comment


                • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                  It might be enough to grind your gears.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                  "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                  "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                  Comment


                  • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                    Cool story.

                    Actually, I haven't even asked my employees whether they like the new system or not, so I don't know if they'd lie to me. All I know is that the reason we made the switch is that I thought the whole idea of someone calling in sick, then going through the embarrassment of being seen that day in the grocery store, was a charade, so we asked them before we made the change whether they would prefer a PTO method, or the old way, and to a person they said PTO. And, they've never come to me and asked to go back to the old way.

                    Cool story.

                    The data writ large speaks otherwise.
                    Code:
                    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                    Originally posted by SanTropez
                    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                    Originally posted by Kepler
                    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                    Comment


                    • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                      Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                      Isn't it great when someone thinks they know more about how to run your business than you do?
                      I must have missed that post.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                        Isnt it great when a bunch of weirdos highjack a thread to have a completely uninteresting conversation about how much it sucks however they get paid to not be at work?
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Isnt it great when a bunch of weirdos highjack a thread to have a completely uninteresting conversation about how much it sucks however they get paid to not be at work?
                          So long as everybody is doing it on sick time, though, is fine.
                          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                            Every time a coworker of mine asks if I’ve seen a movie, and I tell him I haven’t, he lists the entire cast. Not in a helpful way, like “Oh, it’s about a girls professional baseball league during WWII. Tom Hanks is a manager, Geena Davis is the star player, yada yada yada.” No, it’s just a literal list, as in “it’s got Tom Hanks, Geena Davis, Madonna, Rosie O’Donnell, ...”

                            It’s like I’m supposed to throw together everyone’s acting style and imagine what the plot and dialogue could be.
                            Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                            1966, 1986, 2007

                            Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                            Comment


                            • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                              I actually saw the following first post of a new topic at another MDSTMB. I can't even:

                              The Jewish people have suffered, been persecuted, and yet somehow always seem to recover and thrive in business.

                              Do they hold special privilege?.....discuss.

                              Just look at some of the holocaust survivors as examples

                              Comment


                              • Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

                                Not special privilege; special perspective.

                                My uncle is friends with a man who fell overboard on a transatlantic sailing trip. His partner was down below resting but about 30 minutes later had a premonition that something wasn’t right and went aboveboard to check. He immediately reversed course and against all odds found the man floating in the middle of the Atlantic with no life jacket. The man who was rescued (my uncle’s friend), with a new perspective on risk, opportunity, and the shortness of life, quit his job, founded a very successful business and is now easily worth more than $100M.
                                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                                Comment

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