Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Has more to do with the temperature at altitude. Been hovering between 30-35 in Duluth and it has been balls to the wall snow the entire time. Fun stuff.

Down here, it was sketchy this morning, then fine, then really sketchy at about halftime of the MN-WI game; and you could tell it was going to get worse. I'd rather just get the snow. Too many variables otherwise.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Holy ****. I think I just watched two people almost killed by falling ice.

I was walking into jimmy johns and was checking my texts. I hear something above crashing and look up just in time to see about 50 lbs of ice coming down from the roof of the building. Came down between two of the three and in front of one of them. Missed by mere inches.

My heart is still racing.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Holy ****. I think I just watched two people almost killed by falling ice.

I was walking into jimmy johns and was checking my texts. I hear something above crashing and look up just in time to see about 50 lbs of ice coming down from the roof of the building. Came down between two of the three and in front of one of them. Missed by mere inches.

My heart is still racing.

I don't like 'frivolous' lawsuits, but you'd think monitoring ice accumulations on commercial property would be a standard property maintenance requirement.

[St. Clown]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

I don't like 'frivolous' lawsuits, but you'd think monitoring ice accumulations on commercial property would be a standard property maintenance requirement.

Conscientious store owners will knock down the icicles formed, but chains where the franchisee is on site won't have the same motivation.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Conscientious store owners will knock down the icicles formed, but chains where the franchisee is on site won't have the same motivation.

I get that, but more than likely a franchised JJ is renting/leasing their space, and surely the property owner (who would be on the hook not the tenant) hires people for shoveling, site maintenance, etc., right?

[St. Clown]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

I get that, but more than likely a franchised JJ is renting/leasing their space, and surely the property owner (who would be on the hook not the tenant) hires people for shoveling, site maintenance, etc., right?

You would think. There should be on-site management, even when owned by an REIT, but I'm not fully confident that those people hired are fully committed to their jobs. This is based solely upon my first-hand experience with various malls.

[SJHovey]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

You would think. There should be on-site management, even when owned by an REIT, but I'm not fully confident that those people hired are fully committed to their jobs. This is based solely upon my first-hand experience with various malls.

Actually, if you think about it, the liability really should lie with the tenant and not the property owner. The owner turns over occupation of the property to the tenant. In fact, the owner may have only limited rights of access to the property once it's leased. It's the tenant who is on the property on a daily basis who has the ability to see and remedy dangerous conditions as they come up.

Now, my experience with commercial leases tells me this is usually handled in one of two ways.

For a lot of stand alone properties, the lease will probably just require the tenant to take care of all snow and ice removal.

However, if the property is part of a mall, a strip mall, or a larger complex in which the owner has a number of leases with a number of different tenants, then frequently the landlord will take care of the snow and ice removal but bill all of the tenants proportionately for the cost. In those instances you could probably make the landlord liable simply because they agreed to take on the responsibility. In the absence of such agreement, however, I suspect it will be the tenant who is stuck.

I think there is also an exception if the injury is caused by some sort of hidden defect in the property of which the tenant could not be aware, but the owner knew of it.

Ultimately it will be insurance who pays, and usually both the landlord and tenant have some sort of insurance coverage.

[burd]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

I don't like 'frivolous' lawsuits, but you'd think monitoring ice accumulations on commercial property would be a standard property maintenance requirement.

Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.

[St. Clown]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.

Icy conditions on the ground are one thing, but if you have 50lb icicles falling from roofs, that's something else altogether. [Chorus]"That's something else."[/Chorus]

[Slap Shot]

Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.

It's their fault I suppose for having fewer bars per block because as Wisconsin proves beer is the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.

[burd]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

It's their fault I suppose for having fewer bars per block because as Wisconsin proves beer is the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.

We believe that if you drink enough beer there are no problems to solve.

Does beer worship make us pagans?

[Slap Shot]

We believe that if you drink enough beer there are no problems to solve.

Does beer worship make us pagans?

I don't know I'll defer to your expertise.

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

Holy ****. I think I just watched two people almost killed by falling ice.

I was walking into jimmy johns and was checking my texts. I hear something above crashing and look up just in time to see about 50 lbs of ice coming down from the roof of the building. Came down between two of the three and in front of one of them. Missed by mere inches.

My heart is still racing.

On Saturday at Back Channel Brewing, I saw a similar, though not as drastic, issue. The sleet would fall on the tent they had for their event, freeze, and eventually would run down the top of the tent and fall off. Depending on the structure and the weather, it can be difficult to maintain. Probably talking enough to knock a person back a bit, if not down, dunno if it was enough to really injure them, though.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

This morning was insane. Twelve jackknifed or stuck trailers within five miles of my house. I tried to get my fiancée to work in St Paul and only made it to Century on the backroads (highways were shut down).

I was making a right turn at literally 2 mph (without any gas) and my car spun sideways and started going downhill (still sideways). There were parked cars on both sides of the road. I think I sprained by arse puckering so hard. That’s a ****ty helpless feeling having zero control. Luckily the packed snow and ice from previous storms along the parking zones acted like bowling bumpers and kept me four or five inches away from the other cars until the bottom of the hill.

Came to a complete stop, made sure my pants were still clean, turned to my fiancée and said, “F—-k this. No way. We’re going home.”

Got home to a stream of constant sirens for 20 minutes. Turned on the scanner and called up the highway cams. A semi slid down one of the hills next to my house on 694. They hit the trailer in front of them so hard the cab went UNDER the trailer and completely sheared the top of the cab off. Like, gone. I thought that guy was sure as **** dead. About 45 minutes later heard he made it out alive with bruises and cuts on his forearms, legs, and face. Also needed a change of pants I’m sure.

He was within inches of having his head crushed. Took 20 minutes with the jaws of life.

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

There were people literally ice skating on the streets earlier in the morning (around 8-9am). I ventured out (west metro) about 10:30, and there were some icy spots, but mostly the roads were just wet. Soon after, it started raining, and that took care of the rest of the ice on the road.