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Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes early

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  • #166
    Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

    Originally posted by alfablue View Post
    It would nice if the third would offer something realistic and appealing.
    I think Johnson's 2016 incarnation of the Libertarians is actually quite appealing for paleocons. Is it realistic? Well, if he actually got elected that would imply a mandate from the public and the majors scrambling to try to pull those people back, so... maybe.
    Cornell University
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    • #167
      Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      In the short run, but they also test market policies for the majors: if something catches on at least one (sometimes both) of the bigs appropriates it. That's what happened to Perot surfacing deficit control. Hopefully it will happen again with some of Bernie's ideas (breaking up the banks, Tobin transaction tax, college debt relief, reverse Citizens United, tax the f-ck out of the plutes).
      Bernie wasn't a third party. He did things the right way. He picked the party most like him and tried to change it. And in the long run won more than he ever would have if he had gone third party and got Trump elected President.

      This is why, despite Handy's musings, that I will always hate Nader and blame him solely for what happened in 2000. He did more to destroy this country than anyone.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment

      • #168
        Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
        Bernie wasn't a third party. He did things the right way. He picked the party most like him and tried to change it. And in the long run won more than he ever would have if he had gone third party and got Trump elected President.

        This is why, despite Handy's musings, that I will always hate Nader and blame him solely for what happened in 2000. He did more to destroy this country than anyone.
        I guess we will see if this is a sign of things to come. I would argue that Bernie was really a non-Dem running to take over the Democratic party, just as Trump was a non-Republican who did take control of the GOP. But the great thing is, if you do that you don't have to worry about the major siphoning off your votes.
        Cornell University
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        • #169
          Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          I guess we will see if this is a sign of things to come. I would argue that Bernie was really a non-Dem running to take over the Democratic party, just as Trump was a non-Republican who did take control of the GOP. But the great thing is, if you do that you don't have to worry about the major siphoning off your votes.
          Still the right way to do it. Take Bloomberg. If he had even an inkling that Trump was going to win the thing he would have gotten in but he didn't want Hillary to lose it to that sociopath because he ran.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

          Comment

          • #170
            Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
            It would nice if the third would offer something realistic and appealing.
            What if Sanders ran independent? I'm finding a lot more people are becoming disenfranchised with the two parties, even if they don't "feel the Johnson".

            Comment

            • #171
              Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              What if Sanders ran independent? I'm finding a lot more people are becoming disenfranchised with the two parties, even if they don't "feel the Johnson".
              He runs as an independent and we get President Trump. Be fine with me cause we'd finally have the President we deserve but I have a feeling Kepler wouldn't be too excited.
              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

              Comment

              • #172
                Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                We have a two party system. All these other parties do is get the party most unlike them elected.
                Tell that to the Federalists and the Whigs.

                Comment

                • #173
                  Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                  Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                  Tell that to the Federalists and the Whigs.
                  It's been 160 years since the Whigs died. I'm thinking the two party system is here to stay unless we get rid of the Electoral College and perhaps single member districts.
                  Cornell University
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                  • #174
                    Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    He runs as an independent and we get President Trump. Be fine with me cause we'd finally have the President we deserve but I have a feeling Kepler wouldn't be too excited.
                    Oh, I'd be excited...

                    Nobody deserves that. Even the guys who voted for Dubya in 2000 didn't deserve what we got.
                    Cornell University
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                    • #175
                      Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Even the guys who voted for Dubya in 2000 didn't deserve what we got.
                      Oh, yes they did. They even reelected him because Kerry wasn't a war hero.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                      Comment

                      • #176
                        Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                        Originally posted by aparch View Post
                        Wait, so it's okay security-wise for Trump and Friends to book a flight to Mexico City to meet with their President on very short notice.

                        ... But Trump has to cancel his campaign stop in Chicago due to the risk involved?
                        Why waste money on a campaign stop in Chicago when all of IL is voting D regardless? Then you consider that there are Mexican citizens' votes to be won and how could he pass up the opportunity?
                        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                        • #177
                          Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                          Why waste money on a campaign stop in Chicago when all of IL is voting D regardless? Then you consider that there are Mexican citizens' votes to be won and how could he pass up the opportunity?
                          He also shored up the Washington State vote last night. He's going to flip that baby.
                          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                          Comment

                          • #178
                            Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            It's been 160 years since the Whigs died. I'm thinking the two party system is here to stay unless we get rid of the Electoral College and perhaps single member districts.
                            If we get rid of the electoral college, you get mob rule, not a republic. Maybe it's time states start abolishing "winner take all".

                            Comment

                            • #179
                              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                              If we get rid of the electoral college, you get mob rule, not a republic. Maybe it's time states start abolishing "winner take all".
                              2 EV for winning the state
                              1 EV for winning each Cong. District.

                              The EC would then resemble more of a parlimentary system, but it would force the candidates to contest a lot more areas.
                              CCT '77 & '78
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                              - Benjamin Franklin

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                              • #180
                                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                                This is interesting.



                                Trump does much better in surveys than in live interviewer polling. Assuming this is a significant and permanent effect, what is the cause?

                                One candidate: a variation on the Bradley Effect. The idea there is people will tend to lie, or at least overestimate their likelihood of performing a social good, when in person. In the Trump case it's reversed: Trump has said horrible things, and people are less likely to admit they are going to vote for him when dealing with an actual human. This is classic conflict/judgment avoidance, in line with subjects being less likely to admit to other forms of reprehensible behavior (drugs, crime, adultery) to a live interviewer.
                                Didn't the Brexit polls show similar trends where the remain had a narrow but solid lead?

                                We all saw how that turned out.
                                “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

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