Attendance at Pittsburgh

[Hoover]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

This was my first Frozen Four but I thought attendance was fine, especially Saturday.

It was my first Frozen Four also, and I thought Pittsburgh did very well as a host. I thought attendance for Saturday would suffer with Lowell and St. Cloud out, but was pleasantly surprised at the almost full house for the final.

I'm hooked now on the FF (after attending only regionals the past 6 years) - and will try to make it to more FF's in the future.

[Patman]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

That's standard practice for the team-specific sections at the Frozen Four. The early game sections always clear out, win or lose, and attendance is usually somewhat sparse for the two losing semifinal teams' sections in the championship game.

You lose you want to sulk, you win you want to party. In theory I wouldn't mind being around for the second game... but really.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I know I am late getting my comments in but I have to relate my experience at the Consol Energy Center. Our group had tickets in Section 105 directly to the left of the Quinnipiac section. When Thursday's semi between QU and St. Cloud started, the Quinnipiac students decided that they were going to stand, just like I am sure they do (and just about every other school does) at their own rink. By the end of the first period they had gotten the message that standing was not going to fly, that they had to sit out of courtesy for the other fans behind and to the left of them.

Come the final on Saturday, the students did the exact same thing. I fully expected that the ushers would once again come down, remind them of their obligations to those around them and sit. Instead, five or so minutes went by and they were still standing. So I and another gentleman went up to the top of the section and asked an usher to take care of the problem. The response we got was, "sit down or we'll escort you from the arena." Flabbergasted, I turned around and sat down, hoping against hope that the kids would finally sit. When they didn't I went back up to the top, talked to the same usher who gave me the same ultimatum. I asked to speak to his boss, who as it turned out (or at least I was told he was) the president of the Penguins.

So I start talking to the Prez, telling him how I have been to every FF since 1992, (30 in all) and had never experienced a situation like this. I told him that I had paid $100 for the ticket to the final and expected to be able to sit in my seat. His response? "This game if for the college kids, not you." He pulls out his wallet, hands me $50 and walks away. I had no idea what to say (a shocking development for those who know me), and went back to my seat. Ultimately we were finally able to go to customer service and have them move our seats to behind the net.

I have to wonder if anybody else has had this experience, either in Pittsburgh or at another FF. I am not babe in the woods when it comes to this stuff. I have been attending UNH games for 40 years, have been in dozens of college rinks and know that kids stand. But I have also been to plenty of tournament games - Beanpot, ECAC, HE, NCAA - and have never encountered this type of problem. My suggestion to the NCAA is to stick the student sections in the end zones where, if they stand, they won't be ruining the view of those who sit on either side of them. I know that next year I will try to find out where the student sections will be before I order tickets.

BTW, I had a pretty good time in Pittsburgh, better than I had anticipated. Only problem for me was that the bar we went to before the final - the Fifth St. Pub - was closed after the game. Quite a business model, 18,000 plus thirsty fans ready to celebrate or drown their sorrows right down the street on a Saturday night and you decide to close? What gives?

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Re: Pittsburgh. Our only complaint was that we found the freeway system very confusing and in some cases poorly signed. Consol Energy Center is a very nice facility. Wish there were more to do near the arena.

Having lived here now for nearly 10 months, I agree. The freeway system in and around downtown Pittsburgh is absurd.

5-way stops where 3 of the directions are ramps and very little signage to indicate which off-shoot is the one you want. Exit ramps that split 3-times heading in various directions, again with little to no signage. Even with GPS it can be difficult to get every turn correct.

I don't really get why its such a cluster. But it is.

[jgoph]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

We were in 105 and talked to the ushers several times and asked them to "do the right thing". In addition there were more fans than seats so I asked him to check tickets. His response was they were directed from NCAA to allow them to stand and he wouldn't check tickets. I asked if they allow fans at the Penguin games to stand the whole game, he wouldn't respond. Late in the game usher came down and hauled out one drunk fan.

Several Quinnipiac fans in our section also complained to no avail. A very brave Sioux fan sitting next to us made her way into the middle of the 1st row to talk to the ringleader. He was not very nice to her and told her to get lost. The upper part of the section (many more adults) actually sat for a few minutes, then gave up and stood.

We have attended since 1996 and only experienced this a couple years ago with some Notre Dame fans. The ushers came down several time to tell them to sit, eventually the fans got the message. My friend sent an email to someone at Quin and I will do the same,plus to NCAA. I agree put them in end sections.

[matt]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I know I am late getting my comments in but I have to relate my experience at the Consol Energy Center. Our group had tickets in Section 105 directly to the left of the Quinnipiac section. When Thursday's semi between QU and St. Cloud started, the Quinnipiac students decided that they were going to stand, just like I am sure they do (and just about every other school does) at their own rink. By the end of the first period they had gotten the message that standing was not going to fly, that they had to sit out of courtesy for the other fans behind and to the left of them.

Come the final on Saturday, the students did the exact same thing. I fully expected that the ushers would once again come down, remind them of their obligations to those around them and sit. Instead, five or so minutes went by and they were still standing. So I and another gentleman went up to the top of the section and asked an usher to take care of the problem. The response we got was, "sit down or we'll escort you from the arena." Flabbergasted, I turned around and sat down, hoping against hope that the kids would finally sit. When they didn't I went back up to the top, talked to the same usher who gave me the same ultimatum. I asked to speak to his boss, who as it turned out (or at least I was told he was) the president of the Penguins.

So I start talking to the Prez, telling him how I have been to every FF since 1992, (30 in all) and had never experienced a situation like this. I told him that I had paid $100 for the ticket to the final and expected to be able to sit in my seat. His response? "This game if for the college kids, not you." He pulls out his wallet, hands me $50 and walks away. I had no idea what to say (a shocking development for those who know me), and went back to my seat. Ultimately we were finally able to go to customer service and have them move our seats to behind the net.

I have to wonder if anybody else has had this experience, either in Pittsburgh or at another FF. I am not babe in the woods when it comes to this stuff. I have been attending UNH games for 40 years, have been in dozens of college rinks and know that kids stand. But I have also been to plenty of tournament games - Beanpot, ECAC, HE, NCAA - and have never encountered this type of problem. My suggestion to the NCAA is to stick the student sections in the end zones where, if they stand, they won't be ruining the view of those who sit on either side of them. I know that next year I will try to find out where the student sections will be before I order tickets.

BTW, I had a pretty good time in Pittsburgh, better than I had anticipated. Only problem for me was that the bar we went to before the final - the Fifth St. Pub - was closed after the game. Quite a business model, 18,000 plus thirsty fans ready to celebrate or drown their sorrows right down the street on a Saturday night and you decide to close? What gives?

You sat next to a student section, a student section from a school that has never been to the final before, and, lo and behold, they did what they do at hockey games!
What, exactly, is the problem?

[mookie1995]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Y'all picked your seats. Be smart next time and grab first row center ice balcony.
Or pick the corners behind the invited schools

Your choice

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I was in 104-J with the Q students in front of us. Many near and behind me (Q faithful I might add) loudly complained about the standing and were basically told the same thing... "there's nothing we can do". After several minutes, we all just decided to stand. Personally, I had no problem with the kids doing what they normally do but I did feel bad for the others, especially the older folks, who weren't able to stand for an entire game.

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

...So I and another gentleman went up to the top of the section and asked an usher to take care of the problem. The response we got was, "sit down or we'll escort you from the arena." Flabbergasted, I turned around and sat down, hoping against hope that the kids would finally sit. When they didn't I went back up to the top, talked to the same usher who gave me the same ultimatum. I asked to speak to his boss, who as it turned out (or at least I was told he was) the president of the Penguins.

So I start talking to the Prez, telling him how I have been to every FF since 1992, (30 in all) and had never experienced a situation like this. I told him that I had paid $100 for the ticket to the final and expected to be able to sit in my seat. His response? "This game if for the college kids, not you." He pulls out his wallet, hands me $50 and walks away. I had no idea what to say (a shocking development for those who know me), and went back to my seat. Ultimately we were finally able to go to customer service and have them move our seats to behind the net.

Stunningly bad customer service. Issues are raised at both the staff and management levels:

The Rank and File Usher: Sounds like the guy's hands were tied from above, and that he was frustrated with the situation. So he decided to vent his frustration on the customer. Understandable? Perhaps. Acceptable? No. The usher's job is to solve problems, not pour gas on the fire.

Supervisor: President of the Penguins? I certainly hope you were fed a line on that one. Treating a customer in such a condescending, disrespectful manner falls below minimum standards. If the "rot" goes all the way to the top, it calls into question whether the NCAA should work with Pittsburgh again. I'm really disappointed to be typing that, as I had previously thought of this event as uniformly well run. Personally I had several short, informal conversations with ushers and elevator operators and they were all positive. But if management's idea of customer service is to "give 'em their money back and tell them to go to h*ll," there may be a problem that's beyond solving.

...My suggestion to the NCAA is to stick the student sections in the end zones where, if they stand, they won't be ruining the view of those who sit on either side of them. I know that next year I will try to find out where the student sections will be before I order tickets.

Y'all picked your seats. Be smart next time and grab first row center ice balcony.
Or pick the corners behind the invited schools

Your choice

The participating school allotments have been in roughly the same place since 2007 in St. Louis. (With the obvious exception of Detroit.) In other words, on the sides, approximately on the goal lines. Yes, buyers who feel as Greg does should avoid the corners. But in fairness to Greg, the NCAA and the host arenas could be more forthcoming with this information.

I was in 104-J with the Q students in front of us. Many near and behind me (Q faithful I might add) loudly complained about the standing and were basically told the same thing... "there's nothing we can do". After several minutes, we all just decided to stand. Personally, I had no problem with the kids doing what they normally do but I did feel bad for the others, especially the older folks, who weren't able to stand for an entire game.

When somebody chooses to crash the student section, they assume the risk. However, as per the above, Frozen Four ticket buyers aren't really being given enough information to be held accountable for this particular "choice." Sure the smart buyer reads the USCHO ticket threads. But the host arena shouldn't be acting like such reading is required homework. At the very least that's an unrealistic stand.

In general, your reaction is the correct one. But let me nitpick on one point. Being physically unable to stand for an entire game isn't the correct standard. Nor is being "older" some sort of disability. Most people of most ages could stand for a full game if they absolutely had to. The point is they shouldn't have to; they've paid for seating, not standing room.

A $200 ticket package doesn't entitle one to a luxury suite. But it should be a sufficient investment to yield an unobstructed view of the games in reasonable comfort.

[LtPowers]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Having lived here now for nearly 10 months, I agree. The freeway system in and around downtown Pittsburgh is absurd.

5-way stops where 3 of the directions are ramps and very little signage to indicate which off-shoot is the one you want. Exit ramps that split 3-times heading in various directions, again with little to no signage. Even with GPS it can be difficult to get every turn correct.

I don't really get why its such a cluster. But it is.

A combination of geography and general PennDOT incompetence, I suspect.


Powers &8^]

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Y'all picked your seats. Be smart next time and grab first row center ice balcony.
Or pick the corners behind the invited schools

Your choice

Must have been Brown fans.

[mookie1995]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Responses so far have been overlooking something too.

This was the "Q" section. They had tickets in there available for students. In fact all four schools did.

Also, of these sections, 600 in aggregate were returned as unmovable.

When bu was in DC, not only did we use the entire corner sections - but those were for donors only. We also obtained sections for "students" in the balcony. There were two sections, but guessing that the second one was poachers coming to be together and peeps got shoved/relocated around the upper bowl to get out of the way of those standing all game kids.

Certainly something to consider when you pick your seats going forward. If parity is going to introduce smaller traveling fans you will see large student sections down low. I was across from Yale an they were a high % of SRO students as well. One row was filled with standees too. Well overcapacity.

Since all prices are the same, many assume to take lower bowl as perceived value? Since in general they cost more than upper bowl?
Personally I think row 1 balcony are the best seats for hockey- so y'all can keep grabbing the corners

[Patman]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

There is no such thing as a student section at these, it's student rows.

I agree that "the president of" needs to blank filled in.

Edit: and of course some may assume that the school buyers have their exact choice of row and section

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I'm a stander. One of the things I like about how empty regionals often are, is that I can find a place to stand without disturbing other fans.
Sitting at hockey games feels wrong to me, but I understand when I'm not in a student section, I need to sit and be courteous of others. Unfortunately, I believe our society as a whole is turning into even more of a "me first" attitude and rarely does one think how their actions affect others.

Clearly organizers every year think out where to put the bands. They are in the rafters where they can stand with sousaphones and not obstruct views. Does that need to be done for student sections?

I don't think it can be, since the school allotments are not specifically for students. Some schools you must be a donor or season ticket holder to buy those tickets. I can say that for the St. Paul Frozen Four my friends and I asked the UM ticket office to put us with the students (all 40 or so students we had that made the trip). They gave us the back rows of our section so we could stand, although I think there were eventually complaints and we were asked to sit (I don't remember).

I'm surprised the ushers were told to let them stand, and worse, threaten to escort someone complaining about it from the arena. While I think an excited, packed, and standing student section adds to the environment, it shouldn't come at the expense of other fans. And I think being able to sit and watch the game you bought a ticket to is a reasonable expectation. Odd that in my section at least, the usher was holding people until a stoppage in play, so as to not obstruct views, and across the arena they were letting people stand the whole game.

I'd say the solution is to put the students up by the bands, or in the last few rows of the lower bowl, but without there being a designated number of student tickets, that's hard to do. If one looks at this year's bouncyball final four, they found a place right behind the baskets for the students to stand, be loud, get on tv, and still not obstruct views of others. Granted, having it in the Georgia Dome gave organizers plenty of room and options to work with.

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Being physically unable to stand for an entire game isn't the correct standard. Nor is being "older" some sort of disability. Most people of most ages could stand for a full game if they absolutely had to. The point is they shouldn't have to; they've paid for seating, not standing room.

A $200 ticket package doesn't entitle one to a luxury suite. But it should be a sufficient investment to yield an unobstructed view of the games in reasonable comfort.

I'm a stander. One of the things I like about how empty regionals often are, is that I can find a place to stand without disturbing other fans.
Sitting at hockey games feels wrong to me, but I understand when I'm not in a student section, I need to sit and be courteous of others. Unfortunately, I believe our society as a whole is turning into even more of a "me first" attitude and rarely does one think how their actions affect others.

I'm a stander too. I haven't sat in my seat in Hamden in 5 years.

The Q situation, as I understand it, was that the students were given the first several rows of seats, and the costs were subsidized by the school ($50 all-session, plus 2 free bus rides). Season ticket holders were able to be the first to buy from the school allotment (I was the second customer on the phone). The majority of the complaints were from STH's who rightfully felt they shouldn't need to stand when they had a $200 seat available to them. On Thursday, the kids were told to seat or leave. On Saturday, the ushers made one request of them to sit that fell on deaf ears. In fact, A couple of "adults" took the students side and argued that there was nothing in the "fine print" that said they had to sit (heard this argument with my own ears).

The school provided buses (free) on both Thursday and Saturday for students and fans. Saturday, there we several (10-50 depending on who you listen to) fans that were not able to get on the bus in Hamden as they were taking students first. It's clear in my mind that the school wanted the kids to have the advantage. As someone who has complained in the past about student attendance at games, I had no problem with this at all. But I did understand the complaints of the STH's as well. I think in the end everyone enjoyed the game (well, to a certain extent ).

To me, it was vital that the students be able to show their support, and that the team was able to see that first hand. Others may not share my view and I'm ok with that too.