I know that people are managing to take many of these groups to civil court and getting some money out of them- so they are not going totally free.
But the idea that it's ok to tell other people that it's ok to kill someone just because of who they are is nuts. I will never defend that kind of BS.
What's even scarier right now is that the MAGA term is being used as an intimidation weapon. And the people who started it hide behind "oh they are the crazy ones" as if they have no responsibility in the situation.
How is it that people like dumpy can get all over people and personal responsibility when they are struggling to survive on a crappy job (but are still working), and yet when you go and call them names so that people shoot them, that's not your responsibility????
And when is it that someone finally stands up to him and stops giving him money for his BS separation of this country?
Whoa whoa whoa why aren’t the master race of trump supporters taking these jobs??
This place is very good about parsing individual responses, concentrating on the argument, and not allowing trigger words to ruin debate. The few times we have had newbies come in and display those rhetorical tricks we have either driven them off or taught them how to argue with honesty and clarity.
The reason I've posted 60k times here is that this is a good sandbox to hone arguments to take into the Real World (TM). That would not be possible if this was rife with groupthink or the ritual auto de fe you see on most sites.
98% of the time if massive numbers of posters come down on somebody it's because they are being either a naif or a knave.
For the record I do not think Rube's OP warranted the "bs" dismissal. Rube is wrong in his general strategy of citing concerns which have been deployed by the Nazis to protect themselves, for reasons I tub thumped at length about, but (1) he's trying and (2) in that post he was saying something which seems to me to be quite true. "bs" should be reserved for the posters who are being actively duplicitous.
I think Rube is doing the best he can to say "don't become the thing you are fighting." This is always a legitimate concern. Where Rube fails is:
1. the disproportionality of the two things he is contrasting, and
2. that only Nixon can go to China and that The Warning can only be delivered by a true believer with unquestioned bona fides, not by a fence-sitter. dx and French Rage can say to us "when you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back." Rube and you can't.
18 U.S. Code § 2101. Riots
(a) Whoever travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses any facility of interstate or foreign commerce, including, but not limited to, the mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, or television, with intent—
(1) to incite a riot; or
(2) to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot; or
(3) to commit any act of violence in furtherance of a riot; or
(4) to aid or abet any person in inciting or participating in or carrying on a riot or committing any act of violence in furtherance of a riot...
Shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
We re-elect presidents unless they are in office when The Big One hits. People do not like to admit they were wrong.
Think about the average Dumpy. He's getting off on the cruelty, he thinks the idiocy/dementia is 4th dimensional chess, and anything bad his Echo Chamber controllers shift onto the Dems. He has no reason not to double down. He is anti-fa(cts).
The Longer Trump Stays in Office, the More Americans Oppose His Views
There’s just one catch: The public is turning against Trump’s views.
A Reuters poll released today contains a trove of interesting data on race. Trump has long sought to use racial tension to gain political leverage, but this summer he has become especially explicit about exploiting and exaggerating racial divisions, with a series of racist attacks on four Democratic congresswomen, and then on their colleague Elijah Cummings, as a strategy ahead of the 2020 election.
But the Reuters poll casts doubt on that strategy: “The Reuters analysis also found that Americans were less likely to express feelings of racial anxiety this year, and they were more likely to empathize with African Americans. This was also true for white Americans and whites without a college degree, who largely backed Trump in 2016.”
Among the details, the number of whites who say “America must protect and preserve its White European heritage” has sunk nine points since last August. The percentages of whites, and white Republicans, who strongly agree that “white people are currently under attack in this country” have each dropped by roughly 25 points from the same time two years ago.
But the Trump era has also radicalized Democrats, and especially white Democrats, who by some measures are actually more liberal on race than fellow Democrats who are minorities. Reuters found that more Democrats say blacks are treated unfairly at work and by the police than in 2016—remarkable given how coverage of police violence toward African Americans has dropped in the past few years—while Republican attitudes have remained unchanged.
Reuters [also] found that white Americans are 19 percent more supportive of a path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants than they were four years ago, and slightly less supportive of increased deportations. Other polls find related results. A record-high number of Americans—75 percent—said in 2018 that immigration is good for the United States. Although the Trump administration took steps last week to limit even legal immigration, the Trump presidency has seen an increase in the number of Americans who support more legal immigration—not just among Democrats, but even slightly among Republicans.
Trump, like other presidents but arguably more so, exerts a special type of gravity by virtue of his ability to set the topic of conversation. His fearmongering on immigration has led even Trump critics to argue that if moderates and liberals do not limit immigration, it will embolden hard-liners like Trump. Yet far from suggesting a large appetite for greater immigration restrictions that’s being unmet, the polling data suggest a large appetite for more immigration that’s going unfulfilled thanks to Trump’s aggressive rhetoric. Moreover, there’s been evidence of a backlash against the president’s invective since the first months of his term. Trump has managed to force a national conversation around immigration, but rather than bring people to his side, he has convinced them he’s wrong.
One big problem for Trump is that voters have now gotten a chance to see him implement ideas that seemed novel or at least worth a shot during the campaign, and they don’t like what they’re seeing in practice. A trade war with China might have seemed worthwhile in summer 2016, but now that there’s actually one being fought, the public is having second thoughts, and fears of a recession are growing. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released yesterday found that 64 percent of Americans think free trade is good, up from 57 in 2017, 55 in 2016, and 51 in 2015. Meanwhile, the percentage who say free trade is bad has dropped 10 points since 2017.
The rising support for free trade is interesting in light of the Democratic presidential field’s attitudes toward trade. Barack Obama was a free trader and pursued the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a major trade agreement that was torpedoed by Trump early in his term. This year’s Democratic field has been notably skeptical of trade. In some cases, such as Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, that skepticism is rooted in long-held economic views. But other Democrats who were once more supportive of trade deals have also soured on them. It is possible that they, too, have been fooled by the Trump gravitational field into overestimating the public opposition to free trade.
Raw polling can, admittedly, be somewhat misleading on its own. Progressives have for years lamented the gap between the fairly liberal policies that the public says it favors and those that its elected representatives actually pursue. One reason for that is not everyone votes, and those who don’t vote tend toward the left.
But the Reuters poll offers reason to believe that the shifts it documents are directly relevant to the coming election. The poll found that “people who rejected racial stereotypes were more interested in voting in the 2020 general election than those who expressed stronger levels of anti-black or anti-Hispanic biases.” That wasn’t the case in 2016, when Americans who held strong antiblack views were more politically engaged.
We shall see.Quote:
With his focus on increasing racial divisions, stoking immigration fears, and fighting a trade war, President Trump is poised to stake his reelection on turning out the same base that he did in 2016, and hoping that those voters who elected Barack Obama but stayed home rather than cast a ballot for Hillary Clinton will take a pass once again. But Trump’s margin of victory in 2016 was razor-thin, because he lost the popular vote and won key midwestern states by only a few tens of thousands of votes. If anti-racist voters remain more enthused than prejudiced ones, it’s difficult to see how he would repeat that feat.
I'm going to take it as you think I've changed over time. That I was oblivious to the systemic problems in society and finally climbed back out to warn people.
I wish I had studied more philosophy back in college. BUt just a little, I want to be able to afford food and things.