What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Home Improvement - Undoing Previous Owners "Landlord" Specials

We find out how things are wired as we replace stuff. Just had the dishwasher replaced and it took 5-10 minutes to figure out it's wired to its own breaker and not controlled by the other two or three breakers that control kitchen stuff. That's labeled now.

Meanwhile, upstairs, we have switch-controlled lights that are just dead/shorted out/whatever because he didn't do things right when he DIY remodeled the master bedroom 30 years ago.

Long story short, don't buy your house from an auto mechanic who thinks he's handy.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
We find out how things are wired as we replace stuff. Just had the dishwasher replaced and it took 5-10 minutes to figure out it's wired to its own breaker and not controlled by the other two or three breakers that control kitchen stuff. That's labeled now.

Meanwhile, upstairs, we have switch-controlled lights that are just dead/shorted out/whatever because he didn't do things right when he DIY remodeled the master bedroom 30 years ago.

Long story short, don't buy your house from an auto mechanic who thinks he's handy.
Click to expand...

Our dishwasher/disposal is separate. I’m pretty confident that’s typical given that it’s a heating element on its own. I’d also expect electric ovens to be on their own circuit too.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you could get a continuity tester and figure it out in a couple weekends. Just draw out the jboxes you can find and start flipping breakers and switches and testing outlets. You’ll get a pretty good picture immediately for the vast majority.

You can also get an outlet tester that tells you exactly how it’s miswired (if it is) at Home Depot for like $10. It’s invaluable.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Ok, it turns out I did have enough pictures and I took down the light and unwired all of those connections and the remote jbox connections. I worked out the logic for the wire routing between all of them and verified it was correct. I now have a capped 12/3 traveler on both ends and plan to use a wireless switch in the remote jbox. Which I had planned to do the entire time.

Everything works except for one switched outlet. I KNOW I wired that back correctly because I marked those wires. So it has to be that when I replaced the outlet a couple days ago I screwed up the wiring. If that doesn’t fix it then I have no damn clue and I’m back to square one on that circuit.


First a question then a mini rant

Question: when you say what happens, do you mean what’s the voltage across the red and black?

If I cap all the wires and switch both on, nothing happens. So I’m obviously misunderstanding what you’re asking there

They’re on two fully independent breakers both on the even side. My VERY basic understanding of house panels is that this is the correct way to do a MWBC because the neutral is correctly wired then.

Now the rant:
I 100% agree they’re fine and legal per code. I just think it’s extraordinarily cheap and introduces risk (however remote) that just isn’t necessary.

Per 1994 code, you could use two separate breakers that do not share any function as I understand it. This changed a couple times since then. Now I believe the breaker need to be tied together such that if one trips so does the other. I think.

The problem is that because the builder didn’t want to spend $100-$200 (today’s dollars) there’s now a jbox that is fed by two circuits on a single 12/3 romex. That’s dangerous should someone not understand this is a MWBC and thinks power is cut and doesn’t test (you should always test and hence why I found it)

Part of this stems from my experience in old chemical plants where shit is either abandoned in place or no one wants to pay to do things the “most correct” way and you get “code acceptable, but not common practice” installs that bind you up for $10,000-$100,000 just to fix.

Anyways, let me know about the question part. Appreciate the help as always.
Click to expand...
It sounds like the red and black are on opposite phases if the breakers are together on same side of panel and next to each other. breakers beside each other on same side of panel should be opposite phases, 180 degrees apart so when one phase is up, the other is down, the current on neutral is 0. My question was more geared to what else is on those 2 breakers seems like a lot of other things were off when that one J box is taken apart. I was wondering if there were other J boxes in between the one you were working on and the panel? so I was curious if some of the stuff that was killed by breakers came back on with that J box apart. BTW should be 240 across red and black otherwise current would be doubled on that neutral in 12/3 and very bad.

Residential work can get hacked up because no one wants to see J boxes so you make connections in a switch box that has nothing to do with that particular box. In todays world you can run a whole lot of LEDs on one circuit. Maybe 2 15 amp breakers can run a whole house , one breaker per floor. You are correct that MWBC can be dangerous, sharing the neutral is what will bite you if one breaker is off and the other on and you take that shared neutral apart. Nothing hurts more that an open neutral with a load on it.

Now with arc fault breakers in residential work MWBC are no longer a common practice like it used to be in home construction.
 
Last edited:
That’s my understanding of panels as well (re: phases and neutrals)

I’ll check the voltage across them eventually here. Just need a spare minute. I’d do it immediately but I’m very confident I wired it back exactly the way it was with regards to power and neutrals. I tested each circuit to make sure they were separated on the line side and don’t share. On the neutral side everything that was in that box went to the same neutral bundle before so that gives me confidence it was correct in my reinstall.

It’s funny you mentioned AFCIs because as I was giving my son a bottle in the early hours after installing, I was wondering how those would affect it. We don’t have AFCIs in the house yet. They’re incredibly expensive and I think I’d rather wait and see if we stay in this house. If we do, I’d have its service upgraded to 200 from the current 100 A and upgrade to AFCIs at the same time. That would give room for an EV and a heat pump water heater. But that seems unlikely.
 
Replaced the first of two bathroom faucets today. First for me.

I did the kitchen sink faucet a few years ago but never did a drain. Went ok. A lot of hard water buildup made it a bit tough. Especially in that small of a space.

Glad the previous owner didn’t use silicone to do the drain in the previous install. I was dreading that.

Looks great. No leaks. Going to put a water sensor under the sink for the next few weeks just in case.

Tomorrow I tackle the second sink after I get more Teflon tape. Ran out of time between doing my share of feedings and diapers (unrelated to sink)

Ok shower beer time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top