Harvard 2022-23: What's Up?

[Trillium]

Regardless of the merits of the arguments to move on from Katey Stone…. the AD also seems to have believed in the power of a cheery email to prevent the ugly end to that season from spilling over to the next season.

t.

Ah yes, the next time I’m facing a big crisis in my organization I’ll have to remember to simply fall back on the power of a cheery email to make it all go away.

Seriously?! Who is responsible for hiring these incompetent mindless airheads to run things? No wonder things are in the mess they are. That’s truly embarrassing.

There have been complaints and problems with Stone for far more than a decade both escalated to the administration, and manifested by player attrition. There have also been similar issues in other Harvard programs, leading to increasing frequency in investigations.

Problems never go away by pretending they don’t exist. Where is the leadership at Harvard? If they exist, they’re asleep at the wheel.

 

[Prowler]

Abra's recent social media posts, communicating the feedback that she received from the investigators, are more insightful than any of the recent reporting by The Globe or The Athletic or The Crimson on the investigation.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CqWxiupLL9W/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


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from the sounds of it, none of the current players are talking...

 

[Trillium]

from the sounds of it, none of the current players are talking...

Scared shitless. In the past, anytime anyone ever spoke up at Harvard about issues, heads would roll. Their own. It’s part of the culture.

Just like Sgt. Schultz on Hogan’s Heros. “I know nothing”

 

[Timothy A]

from the sounds of it, none of the current players are talking...

It would be good for that player who was transferring to spill her guts.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

The cynical forecast, like I posted earlier, is that Harvard will narrowly focus public release of findings on hazing and racism, argue that despite missteps proper procedures were followed by the coaching staff and administrators, and continue to obscure and dodge major concerns or consequences.

No and Yes. I don’t think Harvard will focus “narrowly," in your sense, on (allowing) hazing and (fostering) racism because these are themselves major issues with major consequences and are actionable, unlike the more elusive question of toxic team culture, however clear that may otherwise appear. My guess is that Stone will be officially gone because of the first two issues, allowing Harvard to, yes, largely escape acknowledging being complicit in the third.

 

[Skate79]

It would be good for that player who was transferring to spill her guts.

My guess is that Jade Arnone wants to put this year behind her as far as possible and never look back. Unless the law firm calls her to question her about the program, she will most likely remain silent.

 

[Trillium]

My guess is that Jade Arnone wants to put this year behind her as far as possible and never look back. Unless the law firm calls her to question her about the program, she will most likely remain silent.

Jenner and Block has made it known they will not be reaching out to anyone. It is up to anyone who wishes to speak with them to contact them. Which tells you it really isn't much of an investigation. No doubt Stone and her minions have encouraged dozens of her acolytes to contact Jenner & Block with their fond memories too.

I think recent players are probably still too traumatized to be discussing it, especially if they feel there may still be repercussions for them. History shows that's a legitimate fear. It will be up to those players who have had the opportunity to put it far in the back mirror time-wise--and have had years of therapy to process it--, to speak out.

 

[Timothy A]

My guess is that Jade Arnone wants to put this year behind her as far as possible and never look back. Unless the law firm calls her to question her about the program, she will most likely remain silent.

I get that, but this is a potential opportunity to make a difference in the lives of many people. Sometimes you need to stand up in an uncomfortable situation and charge forward into the gunfire instead of falling back.

 

[Still Eeyore]

I get that, but this is a potential opportunity to make a difference in the lives of many people. Sometimes you need to stand up in an uncomfortable situation and charge forward into the gunfire instead of falling back.

It's nice of you to volunteer someone else to relive trauma.

 

[Skate79]

Jenner and Block has made it known they will not be reaching out to anyone. It is up to anyone who wishes to speak with them to contact them. Which tells you it really isn't much of an investigation. No doubt Stone and her minions have encouraged dozens of her acolytes to contact Jenner & Block with their fond memories too.

I think recent players are probably still too traumatized to be discussing it, especially if they feel there may still be repercussions for them. History shows that's a legitimate fear. It will be up to those players who have had the opportunity to put it far in the back mirror time-wise--and have had years of therapy to process it--, to speak out.

Then the investigation is truly a sham and a waste of time. Except of course for the billable hours for the firm (ha ha, not really funny). What player would risk repercussions at this point whether they are undergrads or alums? Alums probably less so but this web of fear and retaliation seems to include anyone who suited up for the Crimson. Unless they are a member of the 'favorites'.

 

[dave1381]

Then the investigation is truly a sham and a waste of time. Except of course for the billable hours for the firm (ha ha, not really funny). What player would risk repercussions at this point whether they are undergrads or alums? Alums probably less so but this web of fear and retaliation seems to include anyone who suited up for the Crimson. Unless they are a member of the 'favorites'.

I've had brief exchanges with a few alums from decades ago since this all broke, and I gather their views are similar to some of mine: they greatly appreciate the impact Coach Stone had on their lives and that of many of their teammates, and they feel aspects of the media coverage have treated her very unfairly. (I've already stated my own criticisms extensively.) At the same time, they recognize some who have played for Coach Stone have had different experiences, and they believe those voices should be heard as well. Alums that you probably had fully positive views of before this coverage are exactly the same people you knew before.

The idea that Harvard hockey alums are a dark cabal trying to silence every player with a dissenting view on Katey Stone is a fiction, invented by The Athletic, largely based on one email thread that was, very obviously, taken entirely out of context. (I've already discussed why at length.) Nor is the fact that many alums wrote a letter in support of Coach Stone evidence that their goal was to silence all dissent. Everyone has a right for their views to be heard.

So my sincere hope is that Jenner & Block will have a complete picture of Harvard hockey alums, and that Harvard will respond appropriately to whatever information it recevies. Perhaps there could have been more proctections allowing current team members to feel comfortably speaking openly, but I expect there are more than enough alums willing to talk.

No and Yes. I don’t think Harvard will focus “narrowly," in your sense, on (allowing) hazing and (fostering) racism because these are themselves major issues with major consequences and are actionable, unlike the more elusive question of toxic team culture, however clear that may otherwise appear. My guess is that Stone will be officially gone because of the first two issues, allowing Harvard to, yes, largely escape acknowledging being complicit in the third.

That outcome would be extremely disappointing, because I gather there are more important broader concerns here that should be addressed in Harvard Athletics.

 

[Trillium]

The idea that Harvard hockey alums are a dark cabal trying to silence every player with a dissenting view on Katey Stone is a fiction, invented by The Athletic, largely based on one email thread that was, very obviously, taken entirely out of context. ……….

So my sincere hope is that Jenner & Block will have a complete picture of Harvard hockey alums, and that Harvard will respond appropriately to whatever information it recevies. Perhaps there could have been more proctections allowing current team members to feel comfortably speaking openly, but I expect there are more than enough alums willing to talk

This is not fiction at all. It is a fact that Lauren McAuliffe is an example of an alum who deliberately excluded another who had come to the defense of others who had a bad experience, by immediately cutting her off from the rest in the communication chain. “If you don’t agree with me/us, you’re persona non grata”. This is most certainly a means of silencing dissent, and appalling behavior, which speaks to the questionable character of so many caused by the cult/culture built by Stone. The bonds between their teammates are tenuous, the focus is instead on blind worship of the cult leader. That the rest of the alumna did not speak out about her removal from the email chain either for an innocuous response(much less about the abuse of Stone to fellow team members like it never happened) speaks volumes.

These defenders will not acknowledge any flaws, or admit there are many who are not fans because of the ways she divides teams, has two sets of rules etc. Instead they choose to villainize those with dissenting views labeling them negatively as having an agenda.

The Jenner & Block “investigation” is another form of discouraging dissent. They will not reach out to players who have left the team over the years to find out why, nor insist on interviewing the current team confidentially to better understand dynamics and dig into root causes, nor explore further why SA satisfaction is the worst in the university. Apparently Harvard believes all of these things are no big deal. This ensures that whatever negatives —and the depth to which they are held—will not be fully explored. It’s a framework to manipulate the process to get the results Harvard wants. Same old, same old CYA.

 

[Trillium]

It’s official. Arnone to Boston College. Posted on IG

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

The Jenner & Block "investigation" is another form of discouraging dissent. They will not reach out to players who have left the team over the years to find out why, nor insist on interviewing the current team confidentially to better understand dynamics and dig into root causes, nor explore further why SA satisfaction is the worst in the university. Apparently Harvard believes all of these things are no big deal. This ensures that whatever negatives ---and the depth to which they are held--- will not be fully explored. It's a framework to manipulate the process to get the results Harvard wants. Same old, same old CYA.

If you know all this to be true, that’s pretty devastating news, but I don’t think Harvard is paying Jenner & Block to put lipstick on the pig that was its own investigation last spring/summer, with the firm's lawyers now sitting in empty offices hoping that no one will show up. And one has to have a little faith in the current players, who are not children fighting the wicked witch, but young adults who know that they are free to talk if they so choose, and who now have a unique opportunity to help end the dysfunctional system that their predecessors had to endure. Trust has to begin somewhere.

 

[Skate79]

The idea that Harvard hockey alums are a dark cabal trying to silence every player with a dissenting view on Katey Stone is a fiction, invented by The Athletic, largely based on one email thread that was, very obviously, taken entirely out of context. (I've already discussed why at length.) Nor is the fact that many alums wrote a letter in support of Coach Stone evidence that their goal was to silence all dissent. Everyone has a right for their views to be heard.

You're right, Dave. Everyone has a right to express their views and to be heard. Without repercussions. Unfortunately, in this case, the young women you speak of have been afraid to speak out because they fear retribution. Maybe their fears are unfounded but if you were in their shoes, would you be so confident to go up against an established coach and an Ivy administration like Harvard? Let's face it, it's pretty easy for the ones who were favored by Stone to speak up in her defense. Not unsurprising. And while I appreciate their understanding of other alums who did not have a good experience, it doesn't erase what happened to them. Not that simple.

 

[dave1381]

Right, we all agree Harvard has a lot of leeway to manipulate the results of this however it wants. I hope Harvard is able to gather information and use it appropriately, and I am less pessimistic than others about consequences for alums speaking out, so I am less likely to conclude that the result is already preordained. I agree ideally more could be done to encourage participation of current team members, but any promises to preserve anonymonity and prevent retaliation I expect would have been very difficult to implement and enforce.

And to restate concisely, hopefully one last time, my argument on the evidence that has been referenced for "mean girls" behavior by alums: the fact it was an email thread organizing the letter to the Globe rather than a longstanding team alumni email list makes all the difference. If I am organizing an open letter, and someone makes clear they won't sign it, why would I continue to bombard them with emails about it? It's arguably more intimidating to KEEP the person in the thread who has made clear she does not want to participate in the letter. For a similar example, when I am organizing a work event and someone select "No" as RSVP, I do not continue to bombard them with updates about the event. I again acknowledge there are real issues that should be taken seriously by Harvard Athletics involving players who've really been hurt from their time playing for Coach Stone, but The Athletic spin on this email thread was Exhibit A of media coverage going totally over the top in trying to tar Coach Stone.

 

[tedlasso]

I don't think there is any reason to be optimistic about the results of the investigation. Coach Stone was at nationals last week recruiting as if nothing was going on. Just business as usual. Same with the remaining assistant coach that was at nationals that was recruiting girls and talking to them.

 

[tedlasso]

I don't think there is any reason to be optimistic about the results of the investigation. Coach Stone was at nationals last week recruiting as if nothing was going on. Just business as usual. Same with the remaining assistant coach that was at nationals that was recruiting girls and talking to them.

 

[Timothy A]

I don't think there is any reason to be optimistic about the results of the investigation. Coach Stone was at nationals last week recruiting as if nothing was going on. Just business as usual. Same with the remaining assistant coach that was at nationals that was recruiting girls and talking to them.

I wouldn't blame her for still doing her job up until the time she gets fired. She's not going to cower in her office like a prisoner waiting to get their head lopped off. In her mind she's done nothing wrong and even when they do fire her, her self belief will tell her what she did was ok. She knows no other way.

 

[Timothy A]

I wonder how she conducted herself as the US Olympic and U18 coach......