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RPI 2020 Off-season Overtime: In Memory of Turk181

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DavidNardolillo said:
But for the players that stay, time will tell whether it was better to pull the plug and keep a full year eligibility intact, rather than expend a year of eligibility on what might turn out to be a very small number of competitive games.
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I think I was wrong about the eligibility impacts; players will get another year of eligibility even if their team plays a few games. Sorry about that.
 
In honor of Lauren Severson, today is 19 November 2020. There are 317 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 2 October 2021 for the start of next season.
 
rpi82 said:
What a well written argument. I didn’t have a problem with the decision per se, but the process. This notice reinforced my fears that there was little communication with the players and, I suspect, the coaching staff. Shirley runs a uni-directional (top down only) organization and it has probably done major damage to the culture that the program developed. I really can’t wait until she releases her stranglehold on the school I love deeply.
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In fairness to Shirley (never thought I'd write that), I spoke to a contact on campus that said she's made it clear in multiple settings that student health and quality of educaton were the top priorities and the committee chartered with COVID planning and implementation has taken that to heart. The belief was that they wanted to accomodate sports but the massive surge in recent weeks was the final indicator that it is too risky to go forward. As I said, I'm not necessarily opposed to the decision per se. Someone has to make one and she/they did. Furthermore, I know she recently had a campus town meeting where the overall story was laid out. However, communication and communications strategy are not her strong suit. Would it hurt to have targeted meetings with other groups that are impacted in specific ways, such as athletes, to observe feelings on their particular issues? People that think they've been heard are more likely to buy in or at least accept tough decisions. Is that so hard to understand?
 
rpi82 said:
In fairness to Shirley (never thought I'd write that), I spoke to a contact on campus that said she's made it clear in multiple settings that student health and quality of educaton were the top priorities and the committee chartered with COVID planning and implementation has taken that to heart. The belief was that they wanted to accomodate sports but the massive surge in recent weeks was the final indicator that it is too risky to go forward. As I said, I'm not necessarily opposed to the decision per se. Someone has to make one and she/they did. Furthermore, I know she recently had a campus town meeting where the overall story was laid out. However, communication and communications strategy are not her strong suit. Would it hurt to have targeted meetings with other groups that are impacted in specific ways, such as athletes, to observe feelings on their particular issues? People that think they've been heard are more likely to buy in or at least accept tough decisions. Is that so hard to understand?
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I guess that would depend on the dictatorship/leadership model of the leader. If you like that model ... then yes, you accept the decision. Besides, what choice do you have?
Let's see how she handles the statement from the student-athletes. I have my prediction, kind of like that static in your ear buds when your listening to a radio station while working out. You hope the static goes away but t's because the radio station is out of range, so you just put on another station.
 
DavidNardolillo said:
Coach Smith deserves credit for how he handled that interview.

I can understand the fan frustration and reasonable people can disagree about the school's approach. I was hoping the team could get a season in, but I suspect that the emerging second-wave situation in the Capital Region became a very big factor over the last week, and is going to create a problem for intercollegiate competition at all of the local colleges--Albany County just recorded its highest number of hospitalizations from COVID-19 (https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...s-15736624.php).

Hard to find a silver lining: RPI has just lost its best player, and may lose more players and recruits. But for the players that stay, time will tell whether it was better to pull the plug and keep a full year eligibility intact, rather than expend a year of eligibility on what might turn out to be a very small number of competitive games.
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I've said all of this in previous posts, but the glaring issue for me has been locking the players out of facilities -- i.e. no workouts and no ice time. Even the Ivy schools -who announced in August that there would be no sports until at least January - allowed their teams to practice. RPI players have had nothing, NOTHING in the way of coaching or development since they arrived back in Troy. They weren't even allowed to gather equipment in case they paid for private ice time out of their own pocket. This level of control is punitive and is what I've taken issue with all along. I can deal with the decision to not play games, but to needlessly take development time away from the players is ridiculous.
 
Put yourself in SAJ’s shoes. You are trying to keep the doors open for the #1 purpose of a university: to educate students and give them their $60K’s worth. Then this happens and you have to make incredibly difficult decisions. Many think this has been the moment SAJ has been waiting for: to take down the hockey programs. She is a scientist. She knew what was coming. And the question is do you give people the impression things are going to open and games will be in the offing when you absolutely know that is not the case? Or do you make the tough decisions and give the people what they need rather than what they want. Better to cut down on cigarettes when that cough seems to be getting worse and could be the sign of something worse or go cold turkey? The messenger is being shot here. Got to separate your feelings of SAJ re commitment to the program in general from having to keep a large university community safe from a terrible disease. There will be plenty of time for the former after we get past this.
 
I can't believe I created an account just to respond to this thread. Full disclosure - I am a Clarkson alum, but I have a daughter who is a Freshman at RPI. Yes, that really pains me but I'm also very proud of her. I have to say, I have been blown away by how conscientious RPI has been with respect to the health and safety of their students and faculty. They are first and foremost an educational institution and they have done everything in their power to ensure that they can deliver on that. As of today they have performed over 80,000 covid tests since August with only 18 positive results. That is remarkable! By comparison, I have a son who is at a much smaller school in Massachusetts where they have had 39 positive cases in the same time frame.

Maybe the hockey players haven't gotten exactly what they signed up for. And I have no doubt that hockey players as a group are probably sticking to the rules a lot better than some other groups. But most of the problems that they have had with group gatherings during the course of the semester have been with student athletes.

I agree that it sucks that we can't have a real college hockey season, for sure. I was looking forward to traveling to Troy for the Clarkson/RPI game (probably wouldn't have been able to sit with her!) but with 250,000 Americans dead and the case count going through the roof, even in places that previously had the disease under control, I think that the conservative approach that RPI is implementing is spot on. For leadership of an organization such as this, with the number of people that they are responsible for protecting, the challenges are enormous.
 
greenandgold91 said:
I can't believe I created an account just to respond to this thread. Full disclosure - I am a Clarkson alum, but I have a daughter who is a Freshman at RPI. Yes, that really pains me but I'm also very proud of her. I have to say, I have been blown away by how conscientious RPI has been with respect to the health and safety of their students and faculty. They are first and foremost an educational institution and they have done everything in their power to ensure that they can deliver on that. As of today they have performed over 80,000 covid tests since August with only 18 positive results. That is remarkable! By comparison, I have a son who is at a much smaller school in Massachusetts where they have had 39 positive cases in the same time frame.

Maybe the hockey players haven't gotten exactly what they signed up for. And I have no doubt that hockey players as a group are probably sticking to the rules a lot better than some other groups. But most of the problems that they have had with group gatherings during the course of the semester have been with student athletes.

I agree that it sucks that we can't have a real college hockey season, for sure. I was looking forward to traveling to Troy for the Clarkson/RPI game (probably wouldn't have been able to sit with her!) but with 250,000 Americans dead and the case count going through the roof, even in places that previously had the disease under control, I think that the conservative approach that RPI is implementing is spot on. For leadership of an organization such as this, with the number of people that they are responsible for protecting, the challenges are enormous.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your point is exactly for us. We are well-versed in the success of RPI's Covid measures. Clarkson is also a very well-run institution ( I am huge fan of their Prez Tony Collins) and I have no doubt they are doing a top notch job in testing students and yet they have found a way to keep their hockey programs operational. Are you saying the Golden Knights are being reckless ? Same for their weekend opponent Colgate ?
 
25+years said:
Put yourself in SAJ’s shoes. You are trying to keep the doors open for the #1 purpose of a university: to educate students and give them their $60K’s worth. Then this happens and you have to make incredibly difficult decisions. Many think this has been the moment SAJ has been waiting for: to take down the hockey programs. She is a scientist. She knew what was coming. And the question is do you give people the impression things are going to open and games will be in the offing when you absolutely know that is not the case? Or do you make the tough decisions and give the people what they need rather than what they want. Better to cut down on cigarettes when that cough seems to be getting worse and could be the sign of something worse or go cold turkey? The messenger is being shot here. Got to separate your feelings of SAJ re commitment to the program in general from having to keep a large university community safe from a terrible disease. There will be plenty of time for the former after we get past this.
Click to expand...

Shirley is absolutely not the messenger. She forced McElroy to do all the communication with the coaches and players the entire time (including the cancellation) and never once has made a statement or spoken with the team. She made the AD do all her dirty work even though he was fighting for the season. It's not shooting the messenger, it's shooting the person in charge of yet another terrible decision
 
greenandgold91 said:
I can't believe I created an account just to respond to this thread. Full disclosure - I am a Clarkson alum, but I have a daughter who is a Freshman at RPI. Yes, that really pains me but I'm also very proud of her. I have to say, I have been blown away by how conscientious RPI has been with respect to the health and safety of their students and faculty. They are first and foremost an educational institution and they have done everything in their power to ensure that they can deliver on that. As of today they have performed over 80,000 covid tests since August with only 18 positive results. That is remarkable! By comparison, I have a son who is at a much smaller school in Massachusetts where they have had 39 positive cases in the same time frame.

Maybe the hockey players haven't gotten exactly what they signed up for. And I have no doubt that hockey players as a group are probably sticking to the rules a lot better than some other groups. But most of the problems that they have had with group gatherings during the course of the semester have been with student athletes.

I agree that it sucks that we can't have a real college hockey season, for sure. I was looking forward to traveling to Troy for the Clarkson/RPI game (probably wouldn't have been able to sit with her!) but with 250,000 Americans dead and the case count going through the roof, even in places that previously had the disease under control, I think that the conservative approach that RPI is implementing is spot on. For leadership of an organization such as this, with the number of people that they are responsible for protecting, the challenges are enormous.
Click to expand...

The student athletes having large gatherings ARE NOT the hockey team. Not going to just list the teams off who have been bad, but hockey has been following the rules and staying safe. It's been said numerous times, but the hockey team has not had a single player test positive during the pandemic.
 
rsfs04 said:
His comments didn't sound terrible to me, but he is not one to usually strongly voice dissent in the media, so that doesn't mean you're wrong. And in general, I agree with you.

As others have written in the past few days, the final decision may prove to be right, but the process and communication to get there seems to be wrong/missing. The coaches and players appear to have been left high and dry from the get-go, disappointed (but not at all surprised) by the shear incompetence and inability of the administration (AD & Pres) to provide information, whatever that may be, so the parties can take that to get some clarity and make decisions.

In terms of the longterm, I think a lot of it will come down to Coach Smith. If he is able to get buy-in from players who remain, they'll be okay. If Smith has just had enough, and the players sense he's not all in, then it will go down hill fast. And I want to be clear, I have lots of faith in Smith and don't expect that, but wouldn't blame him if that happened. He's been dealt a terrible hand.

Playerwise, the pool of players for next season will be enormous, supply (players) will be much higher than demand (roster spots). However the roster shakes out, we should have the ability to put good players on the ice. The question will be how much of that culture on the upswing will we have lost in that time?
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I probably should have been more clear. I didn't mean to imply I was upset with Smith. I feel bad for the guy -- I was more reacting to what the handling of this has meant to the program. Smith's comments about his wife having students in a class and yet he not being able to hold his "class" (practices) were insightful...and probably put him at risk of a remprimand. I give him a lot of credit for being a solid leader and hope he can hang in there and keep his asst. coaches employed here for the next 10-11 months. That is the real immediate concern for me -- the fate of our ACs...i.e. will they receive their salaries.
 
Also just registered. Been reading this for months as I can get more info here and from CHN than my daughter could get from anyone at RPI regarding the hockey season. So thank you all for that. And yes, I'm commenting on the mens area because the womens area doesn't get much. I'm assuming Smith and Vines are in the same boat anyway.

To say that we are all beyond frustrated is an enormous understatement. The number one most frustrating thing to her and the team is exactly what has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread - they have not been allowed to practice. They have not been officially allowed to get together for off ice workouts. There's only so much a hockey player can do off ice to stay in shape. Nothing compares with actually being on the ice. As also stated, RPI has done and amazing job in keeping the kids safe. You know who else has? Youth hockey organizations. Mask on in the rink? OK. No locker rooms? OK. Mask on the bench? OK. If that what they have to do to play, they will do it. If 10 year olds can, 20 year olds can too. Side note, my other daughter in high school just finished her volleyball season. Wearing a mask during the entire matches. I realize it's not the same level of effort as hockey players, but come on. It's indoors. It's close contact, if not actually a contact sport at times during the games too. How volleyball is allowed to do that but they cannot find a feasible way to make a hockey rink/game safe boggles my mind.

Coming in a close second in frustration is the incredible lack of communication, not the coaches fault as they've been having constant zoom meetings and he is telling the team everything he knows (to her knowledge). That point is especially frustrating to me as a parent because it makes it hard to plan potential (not potential? who knows) drives to games/semester end pick up/bring back, etc.. to plan around our younger kids activities and such back home. Not to mention how it just leaves these athletes in complete limbo for months.

That said, she loves RPI, loves the campus, and does not want to come home during winter break even though she has to. She's in this for the long haul - education and hockey - and thrilled to be there. We all just do not understand why there isn't more discussion about how to proceed safely, because we all know it can be done effectively. Thank you for listening, just nice to find a place that specifically gets it. :)
 
Wicked Slappaahs said:
I'm not sure what your point is exactly for us. We are well-versed in the success of RPI's Covid measures. Clarkson is also a very well-run institution ( I am huge fan of their Prez Tony Collins) and I have no doubt they are doing a top notch job in testing students and yet they have found a way to keep their hockey programs operational. Are you saying the Golden Knights are being reckless ? Same for their weekend opponent Colgate ?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that Clarkson is being reckless. I'm not drawing any conclusions about any school other than RPI. Any comparison is probably unfair anyway given that Troy is a reasonably metropolitan area and Potsdam is the middle of nowhere. It's an enormously difficult and complex problem they are faced with. I do know that the administration at RPI is focused on the health and safety of their students and faculty and we should applaud that. Given the data that THEY have, they chose to make a particular decision about the safety around sports. If they had made a different decision, I would probably be applauding that too. I think it's pretty easy to play armchair quarterback when we fans have a vested interest in seeing college hockey. Unfortunately, we don't have all the facts. And as a parent, I am happy that they care about my daughter's health and have put so much time and energy into it.
 
VGK said:
Also just registered. Been reading this for months as I can get more info here and from CHN than my daughter could get from anyone at RPI regarding the hockey season. So thank you all for that. And yes, I'm commenting on the mens area because the womens area doesn't get much. I'm assuming Smith and Vines are in the same boat anyway.

To say that we are all beyond frustrated is an enormous understatement. The number one most frustrating thing to her and the team is exactly what has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread - they have not been allowed to practice. They have not been officially allowed to get together for off ice workouts. There's only so much a hockey player can do off ice to stay in shape. Nothing compares with actually being on the ice. As also stated, RPI has done and amazing job in keeping the kids safe. You know who else has? Youth hockey organizations. Mask on in the rink? OK. No locker rooms? OK. Mask on the bench? OK. If that what they have to do to play, they will do it. If 10 year olds can, 20 year olds can too. Side note, my other daughter in high school just finished her volleyball season. Wearing a mask during the entire matches. I realize it's not the same level of effort as hockey players, but come on. It's indoors. It's close contact, if not actually a contact sport at times during the games too. How volleyball is allowed to do that but they cannot find a feasible way to make a hockey rink/game safe boggles my mind.

Coming in a close second in frustration is the incredible lack of communication, not the coaches fault as they've been having constant zoom meetings and he is telling the team everything he knows (to her knowledge). That point is especially frustrating to me as a parent because it makes it hard to plan potential (not potential? who knows) drives to games/semester end pick up/bring back, etc.. to plan around our younger kids activities and such back home. Not to mention how it just leaves these athletes in complete limbo for months.

That said, she loves RPI, loves the campus, and does not want to come home during winter break even though she has to. She's in this for the long haul - education and hockey - and thrilled to be there. We all just do not understand why there isn't more discussion about how to proceed safely, because we all know it can be done effectively. Thank you for listening, just nice to find a place that specifically gets it. :)
Click to expand...

Now i am wondering who you are. I guess that VGK isn't your initials because neither parent of the only women's player whose family name starts with K starts with V.

BTW, the father of a former women's player posts on the women's thread and sometimes posts here also.
 
Ralph Baer said:
Now i am wondering who you are. I guess that VGK isn't your initials because neither parent of the only women's player whose family name starts with K starts with V.

BTW, the father of a former women's player posts on the women's thread and sometimes posts here also.
Click to expand...

Just trying to remain as anonymous as I can. Don't want to say anything that would potentially get these kids in trouble. ;) Not that they've done anything wrong - because they haven't. They've followed every protocol put in place. I seriously hope they are able to practice when they return for spring semester as the coach said they likely would be able to. If that gets taken away... I don't know. But if they can actually practice all spring, then come back in August for more practices for the start of fall, mens team too, this could potentially be an amazing start to the 2021 season for the program. Ever optimistic silver lining, I guess.
 
VGK said:
Just trying to remain as anonymous as I can. Don't want to say anything that would potentially get these kids in trouble. ;) Not that they've done anything wrong - because they haven't. They've followed every protocol put in place. I seriously hope they are able to practice when they return for spring semester as the coach said they likely would be able to. If that gets taken away... I don't know. But if they can actually practice all spring, then come back in August for more practices for the start of fall, mens team too, this could potentially be an amazing start to the 2021 season for the program. Ever optimistic silver lining, I guess.
Click to expand...

No problem. :-)
 
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