Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Damon would be a nice fit in Detroit. Based on his numbers, it's his favorite park to hit in. I love the Valverde signing as well.

[bronconick]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Good god, Dombrowski, pick a lane and go with it.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

And now maybe Johnny Damon??

Okay, this is weird.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Valverde to Detroit: 2 years/$14 mil

And an option for a 3rd year at $9 mil.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I don't think that $5-6 million, or maybe $7 mil, is exactly overpaying for a closer of Valverde's caliber.

If you look at it only from that perspective, it isn't, providing he can do the same thing he did in the National League. BUT, the Tigers gave up on a proven closer that would have taken the same dough, without giving up a #1 choice. I saw this guy pitch in Arizona, and he was the same type of pitcher that Rodney is- throws hard, inconsistent, gives up a ton of baserunners, but always seems to escape- and ends up with pretty good save stats.

I've made it pretty clear that I won't defend the Polanco ordeal, but I can see trading Granderson. His contract gets steep in a hurry, starting next season. A year from now we could very well have been lamenting another bad contract in Granderson's.

So who gave him that contract that forced this trade? Same with Guillen, Ordonez, Willis, Inge, Robertson, etc. There is no doubt that he didn't earn that kind of contract, but now the Tigers are without a proven CF which is essential at CoPa. This is really going to bite them. If they were going to pull a 180 on strategy and pull in the reins, maybe they shouldn't have traded Maybin.

This division can be had with another move or two (I'm looking in the general direction of Orlando Hudson, who is still unsigned and should be relatively cheap), even with this franchise. Look around and tell me just who is going to run away with this division. Chicago's the favorite, but they've got outfield issues themselves, as well as closer issues of their own. Maybe Minnesota, but who knows with their ballpark. It sure as hell isn't going to be Cleveland or Kansas City. Even at 3-5 games over .500, they're going to be in the race until at least Labor Day with that kind of record.

This is the one hope that the Tigers as a whole has- tinker enough, move some other retreads in and patch the lineup. They are counting on the rest of the division to suck so it makes them appear competitive and keep fan interest. To me, the delusion of winning a division that way is like the choice between torture or a quick death. Either way, the outcome is the same, as if this is the end goal-ask the Twins how that worked out. Do they think the fans are that dumb? Then again, Dombrowski patterns his moves from the Marlins... where they compete with unknowns just fine, and nobody in Miami really cares.

Last time I checked, the Twins didn't dump Morneau or Mauer and their pitching was hurt for the most part last season. I'd still consider them the favorites even if they are playing outdoors now.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I don't think that $5-6 million, or maybe $7 mil, is exactly overpaying for a closer of Valverde's caliber.

I've made it pretty clear that I won't defend the Polanco ordeal, but I can see trading Granderson. His contract gets steep in a hurry, starting next season. A year from now we could very well have been lamenting another bad contract in Granderson's.

This division can be had with another move or two (I'm looking in the general direction of Orlando Hudson, who is still unsigned and should be relatively cheap), even with this franchise. Look around and tell me just who is going to run away with this division. Chicago's the favorite, but they've got outfield issues themselves, as well as closer issues of their own. Maybe Minnesota, but who knows with their ballpark. It sure as hell isn't going to be Cleveland or Kansas City. Even at 3-5 games over .500, they're going to be in the race until at least Labor Day with that kind of record.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, reading the News a few minutes ago, the payroll is going to be higher than it was last year. That's why I don't understand why we didn't tender Polanco, and didn't extend Rodney for another year. Granderson's contract goes up in a hurry after this season, so I suppose you can make a case there.

WXYT (Valenti & Foster) were discussing the irony of this potential deal with ValVerde. Dangerous to think I agree with that twit, but Valenti is thinking what I was- how can the Tigers feed a "tear down and build up" strategy (i.e. dump salary and stockpile picks/young guys) to their fans, let key players go to FA and trade, then over pay this guy along with a #1 pick?

It smells like contrad-er,desperation.. oh- and the kicker is, the Cardinals are bidding for him, too. Who do you think he'll go with in that scenario?

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Exactly! and-heh. I thought so. You know I'm good for it, right? The trick will be getting Billy Blue Skies in from Arizona for the payoff, too.

See you next friday.

Of course I know you're good for it. There was never a doubt in my mind.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, reading the News a few minutes ago, the payroll is going to be higher than it was last year. That's why I don't understand why we didn't tender Polanco, and didn't extend Rodney for another year. Granderson's contract goes up in a hurry after this season, so I suppose you can make a case there.

And the new title is regarding our agreement.

And yes, I intend to be at Yost on Friday. I'm giving up an Adrian home game (and a good one at that), but it's well worth it.

Exactly! and-heh. I thought so. You know I'm good for it, right? The trick will be getting Billy Blue Skies in from Arizona for the payoff, too.

See you next friday.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, reading the News a few minutes ago, the payroll is going to be higher than it was last year. That's why I don't understand why we didn't tender Polanco, and didn't extend Rodney for another year. Granderson's contract goes up in a hurry after this season, so I suppose you can make a case there.

And the new title is regarding our agreement.

And yes, I intend to be at Yost on Friday. I'm giving up an Adrian home game (and a good one at that), but it's well worth it.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

We'll, I'd offer him the two year, $10-12 mil deal, and give him the Lee Iacocca treatmemt: if you find a better offer, take it. I suspect that he would be a Tiger sooner rather than later. You can sell the fact that this team could be in contention all year, as there isn't a runaway team in the AL Central. 87 wins won this thing last year, and I don't see it being materially different this coming.

Under very few circumstances would I burn a 1st round pick on a 1-year deal. This is not one of those circumstances.

Quick point of housekeeping: the 2010 season thread will not begin until sometime in Spring Training. I already have decided on a thread title. I'll be in Florida from Feb 21-25, so it might go up before then.

So where is this money to burn coming from now?

Can't wait to see the title. (sidenote- will you be at Yost next friday?)

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

We'll, I'd offer him the two year, $10-12 mil deal, and give him the Lee Iacocca treatmemt: if you find a better offer, take it. I suspect that he would be a Tiger sooner rather than later. You can sell the fact that this team could be in contention all year, as there isn't a runaway team in the AL Central. 87 wins won this thing last year, and I don't see it being materially different this coming.

Under very few circumstances would I burn a 1st round pick on a 1-year deal. This is not one of those circumstances.

Quick point of housekeeping: the 2010 season thread will not begin until sometime in Spring Training. I already have decided on a thread title. I'll be in Florida from Feb 21-25, so it might go up before then.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I'm fine with it, assuming we sign him for longer than 1 year. You don't go burning 1st round picks over 1 year deals. That's stupid on a Randy Smith level.

Exactly, but what leverage does the Tigers have? They need a closer. ValVerde is going to give you as much stability as Rodney- if anyone followed him at Arizona he was reliable and frustrating- and last year he did a good job with Houston.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I'm fine with it, assuming we sign him for longer than 1 year. You don't go burning 1st round picks over 1 year deals. That's stupid on a Randy Smith level.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Jose Valverde? Even if it cost us our 1st round pick?

So I guess the net of this, is:

We traded Brandon Lyon and our 1st for Valverde and a supplemental pick? I mean, if we actually sign him that is?

I'm OK with this. It's not a barn burner. Some comments:

1) It looks like DD wanted a veteran to lead the Bullpen, whether that was Rodney, Lyon, Valverde, or other. It seems this was more important than what I previously thought... with his comments and everything...

2) I'm OK having a veteran lead the BP... that will mean that Perry/ Zumaya/ Schlereth will have to EARN the closer's role over the next two years, rather than just have it handed to them. Like I said, I'm OK with that. I think it will help them as well, to learn a little bit more from a veteran, before jumping into the fire.

3) It cheapens the cost of our top 3 relievers if they don't get closer stats for at least two years as well. I consider that a plus.

4) If Valverde gets pushed into a setup role by next year, with the emergence of _ _ _ _ _ _, then DD can trade him at the deadline, unless we are contending for a playoff spot, in which I think he'll be held until the season ends. Either way, I like the Net Cost of the trade: Possible Playoffs + Valverde + Supplemental pick + deadline trade (nice prospects) or an "A" or "B" FA (potentially, if DD is willing to offer arbitration... o/w, I'll take the deadline trade...) for Lyon and a 1st round pick.

5) I don't know if losing the 1st is good or bad this year... depending on what's available at the spot we would have chosen at... it has to at least be the loss of a potential top prospect for us... but like I said, I'm OK with the net cost of this trade.


Summary: I'm not jumping up & down for joy here... if we sign him. But I don't see major negatives either, despite the loss of the 1st rounder. Middle of the road, as far as I'm concerned.