Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I can't say that I disagree with him...

By Rob Neyer


More Gold Gloves, more head-scratching

November 10, 2009 3:43 PM

Straight from the source, we've got your 2009 American League Gold Glovers.

Shockingly, the voters selected MVP candidates Joe Mauer, Mark Teixeira, and Derek Jeter, all of whom were probably solid defensively but might not have been the best fielders in the league (my choices at those positions were Gerald Laird, Kevin Youkilis, and Elvis Andrus). At second base, the voters chose Placido Polanco because he made only two errors all season. Polanco is a pretty good second baseman, but nowhere near as good as Dustin Pedroia, who won the award last year (and, coincidentally enough, was also the American League's MVP).

In the outfield, the voters had to choose both Torii Hunter and Ichiro Suzuki, because both had won eight straight Gold Gloves and everybody knows that if you've won eight you automatically deserve to win nine. Fortunately, the voters were wise enough to make room for an exciting young outfielder who burst upon the scene in 2009 with some of the most brilliant defense we've seen in center field since the heyday of Andruw Jones.

I am referring, of course, to the stupendously amazing Franklin Gutierrez, who ... Wait, what? They didn't vote for Franklin Gutierrez, who spent the entire season catching everything in sight and racking up phenomenal numbers?

Nope. They didn't. The voters instead went with Adam Jones, who played well in center field in 2008 but was (at best) average in 2009.

The voters made two excellent choices: Evan Longoria and Mark Buehrle. They made some defensible (pun intended) choices. And with Jeter and Hunter and Polanco and especially Jones, they just flat blew it, overlooking true excellence in favor of gaudy hitting stats or superficially impressive defensive performances. Well played, sirs. Again.
American League, Golden Glove Award

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

That just made it harder to sign Polanco.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Baby Jesus was the best, don't deny it.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

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Tigers Shopping Edwin Jackson?
By Mark Polishuk [November 10 at 6:59pm CST]

Fox Sports' Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal are reporting that Detroit general manager Dave Dombrowski is at least listening to (and possibly making) offers involving right-hander Edwin Jackson. Though Jackson is coming off of a breakout season and is still until Detroit's control through 2011, Morosi and Rosenthal note that payroll considerations may force the Tigers to include Jackson in trade talks.

Cot's Baseball Contracts lists Detroit as committed to paying over $100MM to ten players for next season, and Morosi and Rosenthal note that $20MM could be added to that total once arbitration raises are factored. With staff ace Justin Verlander due for free agency after 2011, the Tigers may simply not have enough money to afford to sign both Verlander and Jackson to long-term deals.

In his first season in Detroit after being dealt from Tampa Bay last winter, Jackson posted a 3.62 ERA and proved himself to be a more-than-solid number-two starter behind Verlander in the Tigers' rotation. Jackson's 5.07 ERA after the All-Star break, however, might have been enough of a red flag that the team wants to sell high on the 26-year-old while it still can.



I'm not totally against this for the right deal.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

If we do that we can count on a last place finish next year. We've got enough holes in the rotation at the moment, assuming that Casey Crosby and Co. aren't ready. After Verlander and Porcello we're in real trouble in this scenario unless we grab another top-two starter. And if we're grabbing another #2 starter, why are we dealing Jackson in the first place again? Jackson is still more likely to come cheaper than another established #2.

As for the end of 2011, IIRC a number of contracts are going to start coming off the books. Magglio immediately comes to mind, and the Guillen, Bonderman, Willis, and Inge contracts are going to be done or darn close to it. This roster is likely to look a helluva lot different in two years.

BTW, Jon Paul Morosi is an imbecile more often than not. Read his stuff with a grain of salt. Rosenthal's a really good writer.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

There are few Tiger untouchables:

Porcello
Verlander
Cabrera

Who else?? Exactly...nobody else.

Jackson was putrid post AS break, he is arbitration eligible and if someone wants to trade us players who will improve the team..I would listen too. Is the Tiger system stocked with so many position players that solid offers should be ignored. It's why they will also listen to teams who want to discuss Granderson, but remember this, aside from the Renteria mistake, Dombrowski has rarely come up on the short end of winter deals.

Listening doesn't cost a dime.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Fine, but here's the rub: a comparable replacement for Jackson is going to cost more than the ~ $6 million that he's likely to get through arbitration. I'm not sure how much they're going to end up saving if they deal him.

If they're looking past 2011, this lineup is very likely to look radically different than it did for most of 2009.

For the most part, 2009:

C: Laird
1B: Cabrera
2B: Polanco
SS: Everett/Santiago
3B: Inge
LF: Guillen
CF: Granderson
RF: Ordonez

The only two that I see being here after 2011 are Cabrera and Granderson, and maybe Inge if they want a 35 year old 3B on shaky knees. Avila appears to be near-ready, Sizemore has been annointed the new 2B for now, and I don't know what they're going to do at short now. Guillen will be roughy 37, and Ordonez is likely out the door after next season, but by 2011 at the latest. If Raburn can show that he can play left field and hit without soiling his shorts, we should be able to get one of Ryan Strieby, Brandon Boesch or Clete Thomas to fill right field.

The 2011 roster is likely to be much cheaper than the 2009 version, as homegrown talent starts to filter in to replace the higher-priced veterans, so I don't know why they're so concerned about the cost of Jackson in two seasons. We've got enough question marks in this rotation as it is.

Here's the other thing. Mike Illitch turned 80 this past summer. He doesn't have forever and a day to put together a winner here. He's gonna want to cash one in here pretty soon before he goes out the door.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Now Granderson?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/1...available.html

[bronconick]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

If they dump both those guys and the team starts out slow, you're looking at a 1 million ticket drop over the course of 2010.

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Now Granderson?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/1...available.html

According to my studies, this would leave the Tigers without a third of their female fan base.

The chart fills out like this:
1/3 Granderson
1/3 Inge
1/3 Verlander

[state of hockey]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I like Granderson! I had fun watching him when he played for the Moon Dogs when I was at Mankato.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I wouldn't mind trading Jackson. There's a good chance his stock will never be higher, and I'd trade a #2 starter for some younger help in the back end of the rotation.

I'd be supremely ****ed if they got rid of Granderson.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I wouldn't mind trading Jackson. There's a good chance his stock will never be higher, and I'd trade a #2 starter for some younger help in the back end of the rotation.

I'd be supremely ****ed if they got rid of Granderson.

Not to be a buzz kill, but guys who hit .249 with neutral fielding metrics that also isn't a top 5 CFer is expendable. I understand the love for Granderson, but we're going to to date him, he's a ball player...a commodity.

His split vs LHP has had 5 years to imporve...it hasn't. If somebody wants to overpay for Curtis Granderson, I'm listening.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Granderson will be 29 at the start of next season and has been declining offensively for two years now. He's been a mixed bag on defense. I don't see why trading him is such a killer for people.

He's a good player, not a great player, he's getting older and (to me) beginning to decline. If they want to trade him for Jackson, Montero and Hughes, sign me up!

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I may be in the minority, but I never get attached to pro athletes. I root for the team and not necessarily for one particular player. I like Grandy but if he is traded, he won't be a player I would root for on another team. In my eyes as a fan, I would view him as the enemy. Verlander and Miggy are far and away my favorite players and the same would apply to them. It is always nice to have a player like a Steve Yzerman who was a great pro on and off the field and stayed with a franchise for his entire career. But, Grandy is not at the superstar level like Yzerman was. If the right deal comes along, I want DD to do it. Players come and go. The Tigers as a team do not. JMO.