Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I expect Bonderman to be traded this offseason for a bat. I've heard rumblings that Dom is looking into landing Chone Figgins and Adam Dunn. That would be a significant upgrade to our lineup from the crap that we saw this season.

Figgins is too expensive. Dunn would be a good rent a player. Strikes out too much. We have enough players in the lineup that fit that description, especially with RISP. The Huff experiment didn't work.

LF is a problem, but they have Thomas, Thames and Rayburn and will live with it.

They'll have a ton of needs if they lose Everett, Polonco, Rodney and Lyons, plus, the situation with Inge's knee and Miggy's off field issues. They are already going to cut bait with Huff as well as Washedupburn. Magglio recovered his average and was hitting bullets, but not much earlier in the year... so one more year at a ton of $$.

Then you also have the circus called the starting rotation... after Verlander and Porcello (sophomore blues?) you have question marks. Robertson and Willis are signed for a combined fortune and didn't help at all. Jackson faded at the end of the season. Bonderman is done. Gallaraga and Bonine combined may get you 8-10 wins.

Middle relief is pathetic, even if Zumaya comes back and actually uses his head on the mound.

We may trade places with Cleveland again, if bad goes to worse, especially if Cabrera starts getting all diva like and demands a trade.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[QUOTE=streaker;4403794]
LF is a problem, but they have Thomas, Thames and Rayburn and will live with it.

They'll have a ton of needs if they lose Everett, Polonco, Rodney and Lyons, plus, the situation with Inge's knee and Miggy's off field issues. They are already going to cut bait with Huff as well as Washedupburn. Magglio recovered his average and was hitting bullets, but not much earlier in the year... so one more year at a ton of $$.



QUOTE]

I think Santiago fills in nicely for Everett. He hits for average, has more power and is an above average fielder. Scott Sizemore should make the club next year and replace Polanco. I am actually at a game right now in the AFL watching Sizemore and this kid is going to be special. Rodney is gone and I think we have a good shot at keeping Lyons. Perry and Lyons should be a nice set up/closer combo for next season.

Magglio was pretty much the hottest hitter in the second half of the season. Understandably so, he had some major issues outside of baseball to deal with. Think about how well you'd perform at your job if your wife had cancer.

Inge's knee will be fine with rest. I think Dom will be watching Cabby like a hawk this offseason and throughout next. It seems like he may have an alcohol problem from the reports I've seen. If he can get treatment for that, just imagine what kind of player he'd be.

Starting pitching will be fine with a rotation of Verlander, Porcello and Jackson. If we can add a vet in the offseason to fill in 4th spot I would be comfortable with Bonderman taking over the 5th. It looks like his velocity is back and with a full offseason to rest he should finally be ready to join the rotation full time in the Spring.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[QUOTE=Billy Blanks;4404291]

LF is a problem, but they have Thomas, Thames and Rayburn and will live with it.

They'll have a ton of needs if they lose Everett, Polonco, Rodney and Lyons, plus, the situation with Inge's knee and Miggy's off field issues. They are already going to cut bait with Huff as well as Washedupburn. Magglio recovered his average and was hitting bullets, but not much earlier in the year... so one more year at a ton of $$.



QUOTE]

I think Santiago fills in nicely for Everett. He hits for average, has more power and is an above average fielder. Scott Sizemore should make the club next year and replace Polanco. I am actually at a game right now in the AFL watching Sizemore and this kid is going to be special. Rodney is gone and I think we have a good shot at keeping Lyons. Perry and Lyons should be a nice set up/closer combo for next season.

Magglio was pretty much the hottest hitter in the second half of the season. Understandably so, he had some major issues outside of baseball to deal with. Think about how well you'd perform at your job if your wife had cancer.

Inge's knee will be fine with rest. I think Dom will be watching Cabby like a hawk this offseason and throughout next. It seems like he may have an alcohol problem from the reports I've seen. If he can get treatment for that, just imagine what kind of player he'd be.

Starting pitching will be fine with a rotation of Verlander, Porcello and Jackson. If we can add a vet in the offseason to fill in 4th spot I would be comfortable with Bonderman taking over the 5th. It looks like his velocity is back and with a full offseason to rest he should finally be ready to join the rotation full time in the Spring.

You seem to be more optimistic than I am. I agree that Santiago is on par with Everett, but I liked how they platooned because of the RH/LH thing.
He also seems to be the most logical guy to return.

Lyons could come back, but do you really see him as the quality closer that Rodney was? I like Perry, but he isn't ready for a bigger role yet. That is what the Tigers did to Zumaya and he imploded.

Rodney will cash in, probably in the NL.

I reallllly liked Polanco and hope he'd come back one more season, if anything to give Sizemore a chance to get broken in at the ML level. Putting that kind of pressure on a kid.. like Sparky did to a kid named Pitaro if I remember, after the Tigers parted ways with their 15 year all-star.

I feel bad for Magglio, but there are many people that have personal issues to deal with and not have 20MM to sit back on. I know that is tough medicine, but professional sports is a bottom line business. I hope his wife recovers, but he is no different than the next door neighbor that is unemployed and has the same thing happen to his wife... except the financial security.

Jury is out on Inge. He may have to have surgery or not... just the same, the Tigers need him to produce like he did this season up to the All Star break. I gave him a pass because of his knee, but he fell back into those poor plate habits that made him a .220 hitter to begin with... and that had nothing to do with his knee.

Dom better watch Miggy. That is the franchise commitment there, and he is walking a fine rope right now.

Still not confident with our pitching. Starting pitching seems to be okay if they can get some stability from the back end of the rotation and have some middle help from guys like Miner, Fein, Seay and Ni. Pretty weak if you ask me.

I am just afraid that, like 2006, the Tigers will raise fan expectations for the next season and be a disappointment- mostly from losing key players and not having the depth in their system to compensate. This winter's roster decisions will be key to maintaining at least with Minnesota and Chicago, since Cleveland probably will not be able to recover from their fire sale just yet.

[MissThundercat]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, you can forget about keeping Thames; him and Matt Treanor are now free agents.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

That's fine. Neither one of them added all that much if you really look at it. Treanor never played, and Avila is ready now.

As for Thames, he is the 5th outfielder at best on this team. He's 32 and he is what he is. He's not going to get better. There's a reason he's bounced around the majors.

As streaker has said, Polanco is likely a goner, but I'm not sure that Sizemore is ready yet, especially now that he broke his ankle. I can't believe I'm saying this, but we really need to sign Everett, as Santiago really loses his effectiveness once he gets much over 250 at bats, and the shortstops in the farm system really flopped this year unexpectedly.

What I'm really worried about is the pitching staff. Verlander threw more than 300 more pitches than anyone else in the American League. I can't help but think that won't have some effect on him next season. Jackson should be fine, and Porcello will probably have some more ups and downs next season, but he should develop nicely. I don't know what we're going to do for a 4th and 5th starter. No one can be sure about Bonderman or Robertson, and Galarraga proved to be a one-year wonder. The guy's minor league numbers weren't impressive at all, and once the league adjusted to what he had, that was it. If we're stuck with Galarraga and Eddie Bonine and his 87 MPH slop in the #4 and #5 slot, we're in real trouble. Dontrelle Willis is a non-factor, as he still can't find the strike zone without a guide dog.

The bullpen scares the snot out of me. Rodney is all but gone, and maybe Lyon too. Who knows if Zumaya is done jumping dirt bikes in the desert and if he's ready to grow up yet. We're in trouble if Zach Miner pitches anytime past the 7th inning, and I don't know what is ready yet in the minors.

A lot of questions to be answered.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Reports indicate that Tom Brookens is the new 1st base coach.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Reports indicate that Tom Brookens is the new 1st base coach.

I like Brookens, but what is he going to add that Van Slyke didn't? He was an infielder... that hit, what? .250? And he is going to coach the outfielders?

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

So Polanco has been designated a Type A free agent. Given this info, I don't see how the Tigers cannot offer him arbitration. It's much more clear-cut than Renteria. Even if they might want to move on, they'd get him for a reasonable price or get the pick.

Slam dunk. Put it on the board!

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I like Brookens, but what is he going to add that Van Slyke didn't? He was an infielder... that hit, what? .250? And he is going to coach the outfielders?

Well, FWIW, Brookens has been moving up through the Tiger organization as a manager over the past couple of seasons, and is well-thought of inside the organization.

Oh, and a certain infielder hit .219 as a major leaguer in the late 1950's, and wound up managing here for 17 years.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

That "certain" manager already had a track record managing a "certain" dynasty someplace else.

I like the pennsylvania poker, too, but I don't know if he can turn straw into gold.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

The more I think about this, the odds are that he'd sign elsewhere, if we only offer arbitration without offering a multi-year deal. But, there are so many factors here that you have to take into account, which makes this pure guess work. Some factors that need to be accounted for:

1. What would Polly project to make through the arbitration process?
2. How many more years does he want to play?
3. Does he mind bouncing around a couple more times before the end of his career, or does he value organization stability?
4. How many teams need a 2B, and how do they rank Polly in terms of 2b free agents (or 2b available via trade)?
5. Of the teams that need a 2b, are any in the top half of the draft? Meaning they'd give up a 2nd round pick, not a 1st round pick.
6. Are any of those teams with a 2b need in a "win now" mode?
7. Of the teams that need a 2b, are they looking for improved defense or offensive production from this position?
8. How much guaranteed money is Polly looking for?
9. Does he feel he might be traded mid-2010 if he accepts arbitration, and how does he feel about that?

There's probably a lot more factors that come into play.

But what it boils down to me, is that I think there is a 2 year $12 million dollar deal out there for him, and it probably carries an option for a 3rd year. That's reasonable money for a starting 2b with good defense and a reputation for being able to "do a lot of things" with the bat. Probably worth giving up a 1st or 2nd round pick for, as most teams would consider a starting player well worth the lost pick.

In terms of whether I'd offer Polly arbitration, yeah, I would. Sizemore's injury concerns me. And I think Polly could be flipped at the trade deadline next year, if he accepts, and Sizemore might benefit from a little more seasoning. But I'd rather have him sign elsewhere and get the draft picks. Plus, if Sizemore is healthy, we need the increased offensive production in our lineup. I think we'd be okay either way so why not take the upside to get the draft picks in case he leaves?

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Polly wins the gold glove for 2nd base. For some strange reason the best defensive catcher in the AL did not win the GOLD GLOVE. It went to that kid over in Minneapolis.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Polly wins the gold glove for 2nd base. For some strange reason the best defensive catcher in the AL did not win the GOLD GLOVE. It went to that kid over in Minneapolis.

I remember when Kent Hrbek was the best defensive first baseman in baseball. Gold Glove always went to the guy in New York.

Gold Glove doesn't mean gold glove. Never has, never will.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I'm more concerned about why Adam Jones got a Gold Glove over Curtis Granderson.

[Billy Blanks]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

If it doesn't go to the best defensive player at that position, then the award should be renamed. Laird was far and away the best defensive catcher, Joe. M was far and away the best offensive catcher. Laird should win the gold glove, Joe should win the silver slugger award.

Inge should have won for 3rd base too.