Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Wait a minute. This clown hit .225 for the year with minimal power or OBP. Why was the manager allowing this hitter to come to the plate not once, but TWICE tonight in a tie game, late in the game, once with 2 runners on (8th inning) and another with the bases loaded (the 12th)? Why was this guy at the plate in the first place? You have a left-handed hitting catcher who has hit about .300 or so, with more power sitting right there on your bench. I guess he was just guarding the Gatorade. We're pinch running guys left and right, but we're not going to put a quality hitter at the plate in arguably the most important at bats of the year? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Especially when Don freaking Kelly outhits him.

[Greyeagle]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Or if they're stuck open while it's pouring.

I like Arizona's new dome for football. They can move the entire field outside into the parking lot.

I haven't been to Seattle but I've been told the M's home has the feel of a ballpark and not a stadium, unlike the warehouse in Milwaukee which (like the dome) is everything a ballpark should not be.

[owslachief]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Wait a minute. This clown hit .225 for the year with minimal power or OBP. Why was the manager allowing this hitter to come to the plate not once, but TWICE tonight in a tie game, late in the game, once with 2 runners on (8th inning) and another with the bases loaded (the 12th)? Why was this guy at the plate in the first place? You have a left-handed hitting catcher who has hit about .300 or so, with more power sitting right there on your bench. I guess he was just guarding the Gatorade. We're pinch running guys left and right, but we're not going to put a quality hitter at the plate in arguably the most important at bats of the year? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Defense.

No, the Tigers wouldn't be in this position if Ordonez hadn't been a reliable double-play threat last 3 weeks of the season ... if Cabrera hadn't pulled breaking ball after breaking ball for convenient hops to the left infielders ... if Granderson hadn't been just south of .250 with more strikeouts than hits ... if ... if ... if.

No - the problem was tonight what it's been since May - an aversion to the concept of Clutch.

[M-HockeyNet]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Here's my summary of the game...

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And really, here's how I felt as the innings went on...

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Why prolong the pain? Just get us disqualified and get it over with

[Bronco]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

There is no way to defend Laird, sorry. Particularly when you have another catcher that has shown himself to be able to take a bases loaded walk. Inexcusable.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Defense.

No, the Tigers wouldn't be in this position if Ordonez hadn't been a reliable double-play threat last 3 weeks of the season ... if Cabrera hadn't pulled breaking ball after breaking ball for convenient hops to the left infielders ... if Granderson hadn't been just south of .250 with more strikeouts than hits ... if ... if ... if.

No - the problem was tonight what it's been since May - an aversion to the concept of Clutch.

No sale. Tonight there were two key situations where a hit was so much more necessary than a catcher that could throw but couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Two runners were on with two out in the 8th. The bases were loaded in the 12th. In both instances the same man came to the plate, one who has had no success all season with the bat. Like I said before, the man hit .225 this year with little power. The manager sat on his Marlboros in both cases.

In both cases the inning ended without the Tigers being put in the best situation to succeed. If the pinch hitter (read: Avila) gets a hit in either one of those at bats the tone of this thread is radically different, and we'd be trying to figure out who was going to pitch when the rest of the week. Instead the worst hitter on the team ended those innings when far better options were available.

Avila does not have a bad arm, nor is he bad defensively. In both cases the substitution would have been more than justifiable. Instead we got what we had here tonight.

And unless you worded your argument wrong, the part about Ordonez being a double-play thread the last 3 weeks of the season is ludicrous. The man hit close to .450 after Labor Day.

[manurespreader]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this u

No sale. Tonight there were two key situations where a hit was so much more necessary than a catcher that could throw but couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Two runners were on with two out in the 8th. The bases were loaded in the 12th. In both instances the same man came to the plate, one who has had no success all season with the bat. Like I said before, the man hit .225 this year with little power. The manager sat on his Marlboros in both cases.

In both cases the inning ended without the Tigers being put in the best situation to succeed. If the pinch hitter (read: Avila) gets a hit in either one of those at bats the tone of this thread is radically different, and we'd be trying to figure out who was going to pitch when the rest of the week. Instead the worst hitter on the team ended those innings when far better options were available.

Avila does not have a bad arm, nor is he bad defensively. In both cases the substitution would have been more than justifiable. Instead we got what we had here tonight.

Disagree. Avila is not experienced enough to justify taking laird out. He would have looked equally as bad. This is not a manager issue IMHO, it's a player issue. As in not enough good ones.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

If I've got an option, there's no way in hell I'm letting the worst hitter on my team walk up there with a bat in his hands in those two situations, not after letting Don Kelly and Aubrey Huff (who was horrid as a Tiger), of all people, hit. You're telling me you're going to let Don Kelly bat, but have Alex Avila sit? Not me. Given one at bat (or maybe two) I'll take my chances with the kid who knows which end of the bat to hold once he gets in the batters box.

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Here's the final totals for the year

I've got it sorted by SLG. He's at the bottom for slugging for the regulars, just below Everett. If you sort by OBP, he's right there fighting with Everett and Aubrey Huff at the bottom there as well.

In the 12th inning, with the bases loaded and 2 out, with the season literally depending on this at bat, if I've got a guy coming up with a line of .225-.306-.320 (AVG-OBP-SLG), I'm looking around the dugout at everyone who's not a pitcher for help. Either that or I'm getting ready to get my defense back on the field, because the Twins are batting after this guy is done.

[streaker]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this u

Disagree. Avila is not experienced enough to justify taking laird out. He would have looked equally as bad. This is not a manager issue IMHO, it's a player issue. As in not enough good ones.

Avila is an outstanding catching prospect that proved during the course of the season that he could hit. You're argument holds no weight, especially when the Tigers trotted out a 20 year pitcher that threw in A ball last season... and ******ed an outstanding effort away.

Leyland may not have as many weapons at his disposal than some managers do, but he had enough to scratch a friggin hit in a clutch situation and failed to use them. And what do we get for accountability? Probably a profanity laced tirade in some garbled language even Ozzie Guillen wouldn't understand.

I have two words for him, and the last one is "off".

[Hammer]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

And don't forget that Don Kelly batted in this game as well, but Alex Avila did not. Alex Avila has 61 at bats in his career. Don Kelly has 82 and is a career .207 hitter, although he hit a whopping .236 this year, and the rest of his peripherals are only slightly better than Laird's this season. I'll give you one good guess as to whose career totals are better between Avila and Kelly. Hint: it ain't Don Kelly.

I'm sorry, but again, the experience card does not hold water.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Did you have all these in your back pocket? That was an insanely quick draw.

Never question Twitch on matters such as these.

No kidding, the kid could post the MTU PK Ditty on a crackberry blindfolded.

[The Rube]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

No kidding, the kid could post the MTU PK Ditty on a crackberry blindfolded, while drunk, and doing the Peanut-Butter-Jelly-Time-Banana-Dance and listening to Anime Porn.

Fixed.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

****.

Great game, but the Tigers let too many golden opportunities get away.

[3W]

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

One of these days I'll have enough time and the words to say how I feel about that one. Won't be easy.