Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

As this has gone on long enough, I've got a better idea that won't cause any bloodshed and will SAVE the US taxpayer some money. Lets just give Arizona back to Mexico!

Think of the benefits:

1) Unlike a state like say, Mass, Arizona gets more federal money than it pays, so right there is a savings.

2) Crystal meth capital of US now moves outside of country's borders.

3) Speculative housing bubble that will take 20 years to work through now Mexico's problem.

4) No need for strict border enforcement on new US border between AZ and Utah, as who the hell wants move to Utah?

5) No college hockey in Arizona, so not giving up a D-1 team or anything important.

So...I'm not seeing any downside to this plan.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

What you say here makes no sense. I have no idea what, if any, point you are trying to make.

So a bill that beefs up resources used for monitoring the borders is defeated...and all you can say is that it is different than border security? No need to go on about the need for resources 'to protect our borders' I guess...

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

So a bill that beefs up resources used for monitoring the borders is defeated...and all you can say is that it is different than border security? No need to go on about the need for resources 'to protect our borders' I guess...

If you can't tell the difference between a bill on securing the borders, and a bill that makes cross-border commerce work better, I can't help you further here. You are ignoring an obvious discusion in a poor effort to make a point.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Over the weekend I was talking to someone I know whose son works for ICE on the border. I asked him what his son's perspective on all this stuff is, and he told me that the rank-and-file ICE personnel are pretty much unanimously, including Hispanic officers, very strongly in support of what Arizona is doing, but that the top political levels are squishy and make it hard for things to get done on the border. Not surprising, but always good to hear things from the folks on the ground at the border.

[Red Cloud]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Over the weekend I was talking to someone I know whose son works for ICE on the border. I asked him what his son's perspective on all this stuff is, and he told me that the rank-and-file ICE personnel are pretty much unanimously, including Hispanic officers, very strongly in support of what Arizona is doing, but that the top political levels are squishy and make it hard for things to get done on the border. Not surprising, but always good to hear things from the folks on the ground at the border.

Not too surprising. Nobody who has a job really enjoys it when people make it difficult for them to actually DO their job.

[Bill]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Back door amnesty on its way?

http://www2.nationalreview.com/memo_UCIS_072910.html

[Red Cloud]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Nothing to see here, move along, no problems, the border is secure (according to Pete Stark), etc. etc.

http://www.myfoxphoeni*****/dpp/news...rpaio-07292010

PHOENIX - He's been at the center of the discussions and controversies surrounding illegal immigration enforcement in Arizona for quite a while.

On the day parts of Arizona's immigration law, SB 1070, went into effect, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is in the news for another reason: there's a price on his head - allegedly offered by a Mexican drug cartel.

The audio message in Spanish is a bit garbled, but the text is clear.

"It's offering a million dollars for Sheriff Joe Arpaio's head and offering a thousand dollars for anyone who wants to join the Mexican cartel."

But if you support SB 1070, you're just a racist.

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

There are two things about this issue that amuse me:

1) It doesn't affect me any so I can sit back with a beer in hand and watch all the fun, and

2) The end result of this either way is electoral doom for the Republican party. Which, as we all know now, is beneficial for the country.

So, lets take the "amnesty" issue, a popular conservative buzzword du jour. The fear on the right is 10M illegals get citizenship, and on their way out of the welfare office they immediately run down to city hall and register as Democrats. Then they vote out all those lily white, god fearin, gun totin, picking up men in the airport bathroom Republicans out of office.

BUT, the problem with this is that the fear is misplaced. Worrying about people who would not become eligible voters for another 10 years isn't the problem. The problem is people who are already voters, or are eligible to vote but haven't yet. See, this growing portion of the electorate most likely doesn't like being stereotyped as drug runners, parasites, and the like and will take it out on the party doing that with a vengeance. Proof of this phenomenon can be found in the California experience of the 1990's to present day.

The funny thing is, given Hispanics cultural conservatism, they may very well find a home in the GOP were it not for the overriding xenophobic elements now running the party. Hence a good portion of those 10M might end up as their supporters.

BTW - Please spare me the part about how Brewer and the like are doing this for the good of the state. This is purely a political play and nothing else.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Nothing to see here, move along, no problems, the border is secure (according to Pete Stark), etc. etc.

http://www.myfoxphoeni*****/dpp/news...rpaio-07292010

But if you support SB 1070, you're just a racist.

Follows the pattern of bolder and bolder action by the cartels, both in Arizona and in Mexico. Couldn't be the weakness and indecisiveness of the feds is being picked up on?

[WeWantMore]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Point #2 is just false though Rover. Polls have shown that this law didn't even move the needle on Hispanic opinion of the GOP.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Point #2 is just false though Rover. Polls have shown that this law didn't even move the needle on Hispanic opinion of the GOP.

Not to mention that Hispanic voter turnout is notoriously weak.

But, he's having fun with his ideas, so who are we to disturb him?

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Point #2 is just false though Rover. Polls have shown that this law didn't even move the needle on Hispanic opinion of the GOP.

Don't take it up with me. Take it up with Karl Rove, who's been beating the drum continually about how alienating Hispanics is a one way ticket to a generation in the minority. I'll say again though look at California. Back in the early 90's Pete Wilson's campaigns probably seemed like a good idea. The GOP had also won California on the Presidential level from 1960-1988. They haven't won it since, and I'm not sure they've ever come close.

Republicans cannot afford Hispanics voting against them 2 to 1. As they grow in % of registered voters in NV, NM, AZ, CO, and FL, it gets that much harder to win those states. Look at it like this - in the last 5 elections, the Dems have won NV 3 times maybe, NM 4 times, AZ once, CO maybe 3 times, and Florida twice (with a big asteriek on the 3rd time... ). Okay, now if the fastest growing portion of the electorate is voting against you by a huge margin, what do you suppose the chances are of holding onto these states?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

California was a lost cause for the GOP regardless. Conservatives have been fleeing the state for decades.

[WeWantMore]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Don't take it up with me. Take it up with Karl Rove, who's been beating the drum continually about how alienating Hispanics is a one way ticket to a generation in the minority. I'll say again though look at California. Back in the early 90's Pete Wilson's campaigns probably seemed like a good idea. The GOP had also won California on the Presidential level from 1960-1988. They haven't won it since, and I'm not sure they've ever come close.

Republicans cannot afford Hispanics voting against them 2 to 1. As they grow in % of registered voters in NV, NM, AZ, CO, and FL, it gets that much harder to win those states. Look at it like this - in the last 5 elections, the Dems have won NV 3 times maybe, NM 4 times, AZ once, CO maybe 3 times, and Florida twice (with a big asteriek on the 3rd time... ). Okay, now if the fastest growing portion of the electorate is voting against you by a huge margin, what do you suppose the chances are of holding onto these states?

Oh, I'm definitely in agreement with you ( and Rove) there. Just saying that citing the Arizona law specifically as alienating Hispanics just isn't true.