Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

[pirate]

so much fun, let's continue it

[dropthatpuck]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

The Messiah, his administration and flock of sheep in Congress are an absolute train wreck. Too bad he and 2/3 of the Senate aren't up for reelection this fall.

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Watch out Tea Party, the coffee party is coming for you.
http://www.bnd.com/2010/04/11/121107...ing-draws.html

With all 7 of its' members...

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

dictionary definition of socialism :

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

dictionary definition of socialism :

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Hey look here's what google says it is.

1. Socialism is a set of left-wing political principles whose general aim is to create a system in which everyone has an equal opportunity to benefit from a country's wealth. Under socialism, the country's main industries are usually owned by the state.

dictionary.com
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Exert from the Britannica encyclopedia.
System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice.

Because “social control” may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state ..


Do you really want it to be communism so bad that the simple definition from the last thread doesn't work for you?

[Patman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Do you really want it to be communism so bad that the simple definition from the last thread doesn't work for you?

Depends... did you bother to read your "dictonary.com" version at all? That version appears to be textbook communism without the finishing steps.

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Depends... did you bother to read your "dictonary.com" version at all? That version appears to be textbook communism without the finishing steps.

The one that says nothing about removing private ownership? Which Websters apparently thinks is a primary tenant.

And socialism dates back farther than communism, so it's not just a lesser form of a communism. UNLESS you view it through Marx's original take on it. Which is why the third part specifically makes mention of Marx.

You also missed the point that it's easy to find various definitions that don't match up.

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

actually I was trying to point out that government owning the means of production is not free markets as you said in the previous thread.

ha! I saw the story about Congress' health care. talk about screwing the pooch.

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

actually I was trying to point out that government owning the means of production is not free markets as you said in the previous thread.

ha! I saw the story about Congress' health care. talk about screwing the pooch.

And you missed that the gov't/workers doesn't have to own ALL the means of production.

If the gov't/workers control an industry, say healthcare like in Britain, that doesn't mean that all other industries are controlled nor does it suddenly remove private ownership.

[geezer]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

The labeling debate is so tired. The important distinction to make is that either the people are becoming more free, or the government is increasing control over them to some degree. Whether it's anarchy, libertarianism, capitalism, liberalism, socialism, progressivism and/or "Obamanomics" or outright communism I think most of us decide on a case-by-case basis whether a new law limiting our options to act does more harm or good.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

The labeling debate is so tired. The important distinction to make is that either the people are becoming more free, or the government is increasing control over them to some degree. Whether it's anarchy, libertarianism, capitalism, liberalism, socialism, progressivism and/or "Obamanomics" or outright communism I think most of us decide on a case-by-case basis whether a new law limiting our options to act does more harm or good.

See thats the problem though. Labels are thrown around constantly that have no basis in 21st century US. We are a capitalistic market system with some govt regulation...which is exactly what it should be. The only question is how should we tweek this thing. The US is so far from being socialist...that any govt regulations on the table would never move the needle away from a overall system of capitalism in the country.

[geezer]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

See thats the problem though. Labels are thrown around constantly that have no basis in 21st century US. We are a capitalistic market system with some govt regulation...which is exactly what it should be. The only question is how should we tweek this thing. The US is so far from being socialist...that any govt regulations on the table would never move the needle away from a overall system of capitalism in the country.

I see your point.
I also know that usage provides definition, so that socialism today doesn't mean what Socialism was 20 years ago as may be printed in various dictionaries.
I also think that what you and I call it doesn't really matter compared to what it's effects on freedom are, so it's not worth spending a lot of time debating. Although I can see why it matters what fake news outlets that a lot of idiots watch call it (referring obviously to CNN and MSNBC ), and would agree with you there that extreme/misleading labels are damaging. If that's what this is about.

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Has the stock market tanked yet?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Has the stock market tanked yet?

Dropping like a stone today on word that Obama actually isn't a socialist, he actually tends to prefer communism. Expect FIX news to pick up the discussion tonight on the O'Reilly Factor.

[geezer]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

This is hilarious. Turns out that Congress accidentally cancelled their own health insurance amid the screaming panic of the rush to passage.