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An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

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  • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

    Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
    I imagine the whole healthcare thing would just baffle them. In that age you treated with herbal concotions that were frequently applied/given with prayers or incantations (yep, you read that right), had no aseptic technique, no evidence based medicine and if someone lived or died (the latter was more likely) then it was an act of God or unexplainable event. How anyone can even guess what they would think is beyond me.
    Let's not forget Washington died due to the well thought out practice of bloodletting.

    Cornell '04, Stanford '06


    KDR

    Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
    iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
    gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
    Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
    Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
    TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
    DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

    Test to see if I can add this.

    Comment


    • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      The problem with Lynah resurrecting the tobacco company argument (that they're doing the country a favor by killing people off early) is that it doesn't pass the common sense test. If people are living longer, healthier lives, either by not smoking or by getting regular care, when end of life comes, the treatments are different. If you live until 95, chances are doctors are going to recommend against surgery given your age. If you're 50 and in poor health, the notion that you could live another 30 years if properly treated is a far different and costly consideration.

      There's also the hard to guage but real question of productivity. Is it better to have sickly people unwell for decades before an early death or healthy ones who live longer and stay productive?
      I'm not talking about doing "favors." And we're not talking about not smoking, either. I'm talking about a dispassionate, objective, non-partisan, honest accounting of whether the % of GDP we spend on healthcare will go up or down now that 35M more people will be paying for health insurance and therefore using more health care resources. I just don't think it's a no-brainer that the total amount we pay for health care is going to come down, that's all. In fact, I think it is very likely to rise, and rise dramatically. Time will tell.
      If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

      Comment


      • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

        Originally posted by French Rage View Post
        Let's not forget Washington died due to the well thought out practice of bloodletting.
        You mean that bleeding someone to let out the ill humors is bad??

        Comment


        • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          I'm not talking about doing "favors." And we're not talking about not smoking, either. I'm talking about a dispassionate, objective, non-partisan, honest accounting of whether the % of GDP we spend on healthcare will go up or down now that 35M more people will be paying for health insurance and therefore using more health care resources. I just don't think it's a no-brainer that the total amount we pay for health care is going to come down, that's all. In fact, I think it is very likely to rise, and rise dramatically. Time will tell.
          this really is the issue. no, the cost will not come down. the cost of anything the government does never comes down.
          Originally posted by mtu_huskies
          "We are not too far away from a national championship," said (John) Scott.
          Boosh Factor 4

          Originally posted by Brent Hoven
          Yeah, but you're my favorite hag.

          Comment


          • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

            Originally posted by busterman62 View Post
            Politics>>>>>Principles.
            Originally posted by Rover View Post
            I see it more as you can't solve every single issue with this legislation. That's what the doubters want to pro-reformers to address. As I've also said a lot, its not a Constitutional amendment. I can be adjusted as needed.
            Q.E.D.
            "I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."
            Groucho Marx
            "You can't fix stupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever. "
            Ron White
            "If we stop being offensive, the Terrorists win."
            Milo Bloom

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            • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

              Good Morning America had a really cool segment on this AM with 2 repubs- Bush's old speech writer and another who was spouting the same old rhetoric. The speech writer (missed the name) said that all the posturing for politics had caused the repubs to miss the boat and the legislation to pass while they whined without proposing anything useful. The bill was not going to be repealed. He said they should stop posturing and get to governing by addressing the parts of the bill they thought needed attention, that while they were posturing more and more things are getting enacted without their input. First time I have heard the voice of reason in a long time. Too bad they ended with the angry- Dems you sux guy. The other guy was believable and I would vote for him in a second.

              Comment


              • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                Good Morning America had a really cool segment on this AM with 2 repubs- Bush's old speech writer and another who was spouting the same old rhetoric. The speech writer (missed the name) said that all the posturing for politics had caused the repubs to miss the boat and the legislation to pass while they whined without proposing anything useful. The bill was not going to be repealed. He said they should stop posturing and get to governing by addressing the parts of the bill they thought needed attention, that while they were posturing more and more things are getting enacted without their input. First time I have heard the voice of reason in a long time. Too bad they ended with the angry- Dems you sux guy. The other guy was believable and I would vote for him in a second.
                From the description, I would have to guess the speech writer was David Frum, he's been in the news recently for an article he wrote (posted on this thread a few pages back). I agree he makes some decent points, repeal is a probably a silly strategy, but I strongly disagree with the "proposed nothing useful" part. Republicans had plenty of ideas, none of them were used. And you know what, I'm honestly okay with that. The Democrats won election on the promise that they would do this, now they've done it, and hopefully they will pay the consequences in November. Bipartisanship is vastly overrated in my opinion.

                Comment


                • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                  Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
                  From the description, I would have to guess the speech writer was David Frum, he's been in the news recently for an article he wrote (posted on this thread a few pages back). I agree he makes some decent points, repeal is a probably a silly strategy, but I strongly disagree with the "proposed nothing useful" part. Republicans had plenty of ideas, none of them were used. And you know what, I'm honestly okay with that. The Democrats won election on the promise that they would do this, now they've done it, and hopefully they will pay the consequences in November. Bipartisanship is vastly overrated in my opinion.
                  Let me rephrase- he didn't feel that they proposed much and they did a horrible job selling it because they were too busy posturing.

                  Comment


                  • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                    Originally posted by Terrierbyassociation View Post
                    My only issue with "what the founders would want" is can we really say what they would want if they were exposed to today's world?
                    This suggests that there aren't any constants at all in this world. Ironically, a convenient way for self-aggrandizing politicians to impose their will on society.
                    Keep an open mind. Just don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out.

                    Comment


                    • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                      Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                      Let me rephrase- he didn't feel that they proposed much and they did a horrible job selling it because they were too busy posturing.
                      Exactly. My sense is that for a couple of Senate votes (the two from Maine maybe) and a half dozen House votes Obama would have gone along with Tort Reform, for example. The GOP had a chance to 1) come up with their own bill endorsed by their caucus and have it scored by the CBO, or 2) worked with the Senate Finance committee who negotiated for months on end to come up with a bipartisan bil. They did neither, so too bad. You can only reach out so far to people before you realize they have no intention to reciprocate.
                      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                      Comment


                      • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                        Apparently, McCain, McConnell and others are trotting out "Repeal and Replace" as their new mantra. Which raises the question "replace what with what"? In my view, the GOP had a chance to shape/control the debate under Bush 2.0 and completely missed it. Moreover, they failed miserably to contribute in a meaningful way to the last round of hash. It will be difficult enough to "repeal" through legislative or judicial means, and I doubt the "replace" part would be any great example of legislative process either.
                        "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

                        "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

                        sigpic

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                        • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                          You wouldn't have to repeal and replace if you didn't refuse to work with the Dems to make health care what you wanted. You decided, hey we're not going to work with you at all.

                          Now you want the Dems to work with you? Why now?
                          Feed The Hungry! Click once a day!

                          Comment


                          • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                            Originally posted by Rover View Post
                            Exactly. My sense is that for a couple of Senate votes (the two from Maine maybe) and a half dozen House votes Obama would have gone along with Tort Reform, for example. The GOP had a chance to 1) come up with their own bill endorsed by their caucus and have it scored by the CBO, or 2) worked with the Senate Finance committee who negotiated for months on end to come up with a bipartisan bil. They did neither, so too bad. You can only reach out so far to people before you realize they have no intention to reciprocate.
                            Pssst.....stop drinking swamp water.

                            What you lefties fail to see is that this bill is a non-amendable POS. What the GOP has been and continued to call for through passage is to chuck it and start from scratch in a bi-part manner. No point in working on a bill when you overwhelmingly disagree with 90% of it.

                            It's not the GOP who lost - it's the nation that lost --- and the finger is pointed squarely at the Dems and their leadership.

                            BTW, anyone else pick up on the fact that anyone wanting a student loan will now have to go through the feds - due to this wonderful healthcare bill?

                            It's going to be a barrel of laughs watching the lefty congressional members squirm when they go back to their districts and have to explain all of the crap that got buried in this thing that they'll claim they knew nothing about.
                            "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government"...Thomas Jefferson
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                              Originally posted by Terrierbyassociation View Post
                              You wouldn't have to repeal and replace if you didn't refuse to work with the Dems to make health care what you wanted. You decided, hey we're not going to work with you at all.

                              Now you want the Dems to work with you? Why now?
                              This ignores one key point - the Dems never reached out to the GOP, because they knew they didn't need the GOP to pass the bill. Why do you think reconciliation was their reaction to Scott Brown's election? It was because their goal the entire time was to pass what THEY wanted, screw what the GOP wanted.

                              If you believe that "health care summit" was a true moment of reaching out to the GOP, I have a bridge in New York to sell you. That was political theater with the sole intention of making it look like Ogabe was interested in adding GOP ideas to the bill in the spirit of bi-partisanship and then try to paint the GOP as obstructionists.

                              There's just one problem - the GOP isn't in a position to obstruct ANYTHING. They didn't have the votes in the Senate before Scott Brown's election, they still don't have the votes in the House. Not to mention that no GOP ideas were actually included.

                              The Democrats are the ones calling the shots here. Going along with a suicidal bill was only ever going to make the GOP look as though they were in collusion with the party holding a gun to the collective heads of the American people.
                              Keep an open mind. Just don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out.

                              Comment


                              • Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

                                Originally posted by dropthatpuck View Post
                                Pssst.....stop drinking swamp water.

                                What you lefties fail to see is that this bill is a non-amendable POS. What the GOP has been and continued to call for through passage is to chuck it and start from scratch in a bi-part manner. No point in working on a bill when you overwhelmingly disagree with 90% of it.

                                It's not the GOP who lost - it's the nation that lost --- and the finger is pointed squarely at the Dems and their leadership.

                                BTW, anyone else pick up on the fact that anyone wanting a student loan will now have to go through the feds - due to this wonderful healthcare bill?

                                It's going to be a barrel of laughs watching the lefty congressional members squirm when they go back to their districts and have to explain all of the crap that got buried in this thing that they'll claim they knew nothing about.
                                Have you actually read the student loan provisions? It's going to save us billions of dollars every year that we were gifting the banks. We were giving them subsidies to give student loans and then guaranteeing them to boot! Why give them subsidies and guaranteeing them? Now we're eliminating that handout. Thought you would be all for that.
                                Feed The Hungry! Click once a day!

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