An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

[DaveStPaul]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

if you want to bring me a logical argument bring it. and I'll debate with facts.

that's original. bring the real debate. I'm ready

Like I said. I'm waiting for a real debate. I'm ready. bring it . . . I'd rather debate.
So bring the debate and we'll have at it.

as for debate, I'm awaiting patiently for it.

While I now understand what you base your viewpoint on, it still is sadly out the other side of reality. I am glad that I don't have the angst in my heart that you do. What I have is a little less frustration knowing there is a possibility that before I retire I may not have to spend at least 50% of my day trying to figure out whether the patient in front of me can a) afford the most basic treatment or testing that will prevent them from having serious sequelae b) eventually will not have to strategize what medication my senior patients can most safetly discontinue when they hit the donut hole or afford even when they have coverage, c) can do an an health maintenance exam on the medicare patient without having the practice eat the cost because the pt can't afford it, d) see patients that have not had treatment for chronic illness because of insurance issues and then come in symptomatic, with permanent damage because they couldn't afford said insurance, e) spend more than half my visit helping the patient figure out logistics and cost rather than diagnose and treat what is wrong with them.

And before you start on how they will tell us how to practice medicine and direct care- the insurance companies do this in a very arbitrary way with no recourse and many times are requiring us to change perfectly good treatment plans simply because they have a deal with pharm companies for a different medication. So even if they do that (which I can't see anywhere in the bill) there would be no change.

Do I like the whole bill- no. It is going to cause a CF of major proportions because we don't have enough primary care providers to care for the population. When Mass started the insurance requirement we had an instant shortage. There are a ton of other potential problems that Mass makes a great audiovisual aid for. It certainly isn't perfect.

Access/ability to pay for care is the worst I have seen it in the 30yrs since I started school. The amount of people undertreated and underdiagnosed due to financial issues is mindnumbing. The percentage of working people that can't afford the most basic care used to be low enough that it was an anomaly that I had to discuss what they could afford, etc. Now I would say that greater than 50% of my patients part of the visit is discussing what they can afford. These are people who have worked their whole lives. They don't have the plasma TV and the big car.

I would love to see someone do a projection of cost if we kept things as a status quo. I didn't ever see that. Doing nothing would have bankrupted the system. We have a critical mass of people aging up, undertreated, undiagnosed who are a trainwreck waiting to happen. It costs a hell of a lot less to treat someone's diabetes, blood pressure than treat their heart attack, kidney failure, stroke and resultant incapacities to the tune of a few hundred thousand (on the cheap side).

This isn't socialism, it is a much more cost effective way to run things in the long run. Socialism would be providing for everyone. We certainly don't and won't. The biggest problem with the system is that you can't link profit to good medical care. There is no way to make good money without an effect on good healthcare. If you look at the best health systems in the world for the population as a whole, profit is not part of the picture.

thank you for a very eloquent response. will get back on this later

What happened with this?

[St. Clown]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What happened with this?

It hasn't stopped being later yet, Dave.

[DaveStPaul]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

It hasn't stopped being later yet, Dave.

The man has a point.

[Plante26]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

Are you cavemen still out here crying about the health care bill? Yikes. Look, as amusing as it was seeing you people on your knees weeping and praying for the Lord Cheney to save you, the bottom line is this is The Law Of The Land, and there's nothing you can do about it. Well, except for maybe cut somebody's gas line or something like that, which will get you a niiice visit from the FBI.

But, lets take on Right Wing Idiot Point #1. Repeal in 2011. How exactly do you idiots plan on accomplishing this? By winning 20 seats in the Senate? Gee guys, that seems a big optomistic. And what are you going to do about Obama?

Well, I guess if the death panels start offing people you might have a point. Make sure you post the first time that happens. Its a good thing the constituency for Republicans is stupid people.

What's funny is that you believe this bill is the answer. Gives me a pretty good idea of your ability to think rationally.

But, for the sake of brevity, I'll ask you two simple questions:

* How does this bill address overall cost of health care?
* How is the bill going to make health insurance more affordable for all Americans?

Two simple questions, Rover. Have at 'em.

[Red Cloud]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What's funny is that you believe this bill is the answer. Gives me a pretty good idea of your ability to think rationally.

I love how his standard for whether something is a good idea or not (i.e., repeal and replace) is relative to whether or not it would be easy to accomplish.

[LynahFan]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What's funny is that you believe this bill is the answer. Gives me a pretty good idea of your ability to think rationally.

But, for the sake of brevity, I'll ask you two simple questions:

* How does this bill address overall cost of health care?
* How is the bill going to make health insurance more affordable for all Americans?

Two simple questions, Rover. Have at 'em.

Let me guess, the answers will be some mumbling about "moral obligations" and "sharing the wealth."

[leswp1]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What's funny is that you believe this bill is the answer. Gives me a pretty good idea of your ability to think rationally.

But, for the sake of brevity, I'll ask you two simple questions:

* How does this bill address overall cost of health care?
* How is the bill going to make health insurance more affordable for all Americans?

Two simple questions, Rover. Have at 'em.

Not going to retype but there are a number of places that it will save money for the elderly over time. If you got quickly older you would be happier with what it does.

[walrus]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

Let me guess, the answers will be some mumbling about "moral obligations" and "sharing the wealth."

Nah, he could care about that. Their are a few other on here that will talk about those issues

I must agree with Rover on one thing. Either the Repubs have nothing to add or they are doing a bad job getting the news out there.

[St. Clown]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

Nah, he could care about that. Their are a few other on here that will talk about those issues

I must agree with Rover on one thing. Either the Repubs have nothing to add or they are doing a bad job getting the news out there.

I think the GOP leadership is taking time, trying to stratergerize at the moment. They have the habit of just letting the Dems have their win after the fact, and then there's the growing movement of people actually, honestly upset with this law and want to see it repealed. They're busy making up their minds as to whether or not they take a continued stand or just go on with other things in their traditional weak-kneed fashion.

[Red Cloud]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

Not going to retype but there are a number of places that it will save money for the elderly over time. If you got quickly older you would be happier with what it does.

As for the rest of the country... screw 'em! Not only are you going to be required to have insurance, your higher premiums despite your better health (as a group) will go to subsidize Grandpa! WE ARE ALL THE SAME! FINALLY!

[theprofromdover]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What happened with this?

The Commie-Cuban is in his cave preparing his response.

[Rover]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

What's funny is that you believe this bill is the answer. Gives me a pretty good idea of your ability to think rationally.

But, for the sake of brevity, I'll ask you two simple questions:

* How does this bill address overall cost of health care?
* How is the bill going to make health insurance more affordable for all Americans?

Two simple questions, Rover. Have at 'em.

I like how people initially think I'm too hard on the righties, but then when they start seeing their posts always come around to agreeing with my treatment of them.

But to answer your questions:

1) As les has detailed many, many times, if you can get people looked at long before they show up at the ER with life threatening conditions, you've reduced the costs to the health care system. Getting everyone insurance and stopping people with pre-existing conditions from being denying insurance goes a long way towards addressing this issue. Again, for the sake of brevity, just read les' posts. There are other items also, but lets just start with this one.

2) Several ways. First, the uninsured and small businesses can now go to a national exchange where there's competition for their business, instead of being forced to deal with the only insurer in the market in many cases. Also, seniors now have the donut hole exemption closed, and as many with elderly grandparents can attest their prescription bills easily put them in this category. Lastly, you're also cracking down on cadillac plans that encourage overuse of the health care system. Once again, for the sake of brevity I'll stop here and let you digest.

[walrus]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

. Lastly, you're also cracking down on cadillac plans that encourage overuse of the health care system. Once again, for the sake of brevity I'll stop here and let you digest.

That doesn't take affect until 2018, correct?. So we go 8 more years of them wasting money before we see any benefit. Not sure how that makes any sense if what you say is true( encouraging overuse)

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

That doesn't take affect until 2018, correct?. So we go 8 more years of them wasting money before we see any benefit. Not sure how that makes any sense if what you say is true( encouraging overuse)

Or it gives the people giving out those plans 8 years to fix them themselves without being forced fed by the government right away.

[walrus]

Re: An Open Letter To All USCHO Crackpots and Knuckledraggers - by Rover

Or it gives the people giving out those plans 8 years to fix them themselves without being forced fed by the government right away.

The glass half empty guy thinks someone would do that. Wow. They'll probably just pay the 40% and pass it on to you and me