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  • #31
    Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    deontological ethics
    Dentists?

    Cornell '04, Stanford '06


    KDR

    Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
    iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
    gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
    Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
    Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
    TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
    DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

    Test to see if I can add this.

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    • #32
      Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

      Originally posted by French Rage View Post
      Dentists?
      Anti-dentites ...
      "We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate." -Thomas Jefferson

      "I confess I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." -H. L. Mencken

      sigpic

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      • #33
        Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

        Originally posted by ScottM View Post
        Anti-dentites ...
        They should go to their own schools...

        Cornell '04, Stanford '06


        KDR

        Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
        iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
        gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
        Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
        Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
        TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
        DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

        Test to see if I can add this.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

          Originally posted by French Rage View Post
          Dentists?
          Kind of.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
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          • #35
            Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Then again, if that's your definition of Capitalism then it's never existed in the real world and never will. For example, by that definition Adam Smith would be a raging Socialist.

            In one sense, Capitalism and Socialism are two hypothetical points on a spectrum ranging from laissez faire to regulation, with real systems always floating around in between.

            In another sense, Capitalism and Socialism are virtually superimposed points on a spectrum ranging from Materialist doctrines to the deontological ethics that dominated human thought from the beginning of history until about 500 years ago.
            I was just going to say that. Plus, cake is good.
            Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
            USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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            • #36
              Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

              Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
              I've got some doctor friends including an anesthesiologist, who are quite ****ed at Obama for this socialist nonsense. They're wondering very loudly, why not Tort reform???
              I too ask, "Why not Tort reform?" but my curiosity perks up when someone tries to make an argument with, "I know people in the industry and they say blah, blah, blah...".

              That said take this commentary fwiw given Coleman is a raving liberal:

              Can the Mad As Hell Doctors counter America's nasty case of the Slime Flu? (excerpted)

              A group of crusading physicians calling themselves the Mad As Hell Doctors stopped in Minnesota last week on a tour from Oregon to Washington, D.C., to whip up support for a single-payer health care system, a plan they call "Medicare for All."

              Before the Mad As Hell Doctors even pulled up in front of the State Capitol on Wednesday (in a Winnebago plastered with slogans such as "Single Payer or Bust!" and "Get Mad! Stay Mad! Make History!"), two things had happened to take some of the wind out of their sails:

              1) A yearlong effort by the U.S. Senate to produce a health care reform plan that both parties could support brought forth a turkey that no one liked and few supported -- a plan without any "public option" whatsoever.

              2) Conservative Republicans, including candidate for governor Tom Emmer, expanding on Gov. Tim Pawlenty's cockeyed threat to use the 10th Amendment to have Minnesota "opt out" of health care reform, proposed an amendment to the state Constitution "guaranteeing" a citizen's right to buy private health insurance. Next on the ballot: An amendment to guarantee your right to buy police and fire protection from private vendors so you don't have to rely on public safety services. (Word to the wise: Don't tell a cop or firefighter he is a freedom-sucking socialist.)

              There have been positive developments, too: More than 70 legislators have signed on to a bill that would provide single-payer health insurance to all Minnesotans, a plan supported by 400 Minnesota doctors who belong to Physicians for a National Health Plan (that's the group that sponsored the Mad Doctors' visit).

              The fighting physicians brought their righteous anger to the Capitol rotunda and tried to prod Minnesota's conscience about reforming a system that offers great care to those who can afford it, but lets millions rely on emergency rooms (including the "illegal immigrants" who even Barack Obama has deemed unworthy of routine health care).

              "Americans are going bankrupt from health care bills," a retired doctor named Robert Seward told a crowd of supporters in the rotunda. Another retired doctor, Joe Eusterman, said true reform was being obstructed by "lies and fear-mongering."
              My point is I think depends upon who you ask, even if I still don't support any current plan I've seen proposed.

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              • #37
                Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                In another sense, Capitalism and Socialism are virtually superimposed points on a spectrum ranging from Materialist doctrines to the deontological ethics that dominated human thought from the beginning of history until about 500 years ago.
                Sorry, I can't buy that one. You could also say that on a cosmological spectrum the Earth is a virtually superimposed point with Mercury, but they are still very unlike one another.

                Back to Sowell and "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" for a moment, on what basis were you saying that the right doesn't take Sowell seriously and the book didn't exactly make him any friends on that (right) side? He didn't attack conservatives in the book; he did have some heartburn with liberals.

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                • #38
                  Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                  Originally posted by Bill View Post
                  Sorry, I can't buy that one. You could also say that on a cosmological spectrum the Earth is a virtually superimposed point with Mercury, but they are still very unlike one another.
                  It isn't that they're the same when viewed from a sufficient distance, it's that they are twin philosophies insofar as they are both radically Materialist.

                  Comparably, medieval Christianity and medieval Islam (or for that matter, the contemporary fundamentalist variety of each) -- enemy philosophies to their adherents for so many reasons -- were virtually the same in that they were theocratic, as opposed to modern secular philosophies.

                  One of the more ironic aspects of the war between capitalism-haters and socialism-haters is that they are so similar in their obsession with material wealth. They are each arranging deck chairs on the same Titanic.
                  Last edited by Kepler; 09-21-2009, 06:30 PM.
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                  • #39
                    Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                    Originally posted by Bill View Post
                    Back to Sowell and "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" for a moment, on what basis were you saying that the right doesn't take Sowell seriously and the book didn't exactly make him any friends on that (right) side? He didn't attack conservatives in the book; he did have some heartburn with liberals.
                    Sowell had the right cheering in the aisles until he turned his guns on the Simple Country Folk. When he started calling out white southerners for the same sins as the black inner city (lazy, irresponsible rubes), he stopped getting invited to CPAC.

                    The way the intellectual right "solved" the "Sowell problem" was to selectively repeat his charges against liberal statism while ignoring his impolite remarks about The Base. The Neocons were always just using that demographic as useful idiots, so they found it pretty easy to do that. But it would be hard for somebody who genuinely identified with the Holy Rollers to forgive and forget -- say, a hypothetical Palin who had the ability and inclination to read something more advanced than Auto Trader.
                    Last edited by Kepler; 09-21-2009, 06:32 PM.
                    Cornell University
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                    • #40
                      Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Sowell had the right cheering in the aisles until he turned his guns on the Simple Country Folk. When he started calling out white southerners for the same sins as the black inner city (lazy, irresponsible rubes), he stopped getting invited to CPAC.

                      The way the intellectual right "solved" the "Sowell problem" was to selectively repeat his charges against liberal statism while ignoring his impolite remarks about The Base. The Neocons were always just using that demographic as useful idiots, so they found it pretty easy to do that. But it would be hard for somebody who genuinely identified with the Holy Rollers to forgive and forget -- say, a hypothetical Palin who had the ability and inclination to read something more advanced than Auto Trader.
                      But he doesn't throw all white southerners into the same bucket, particularly in recent decades. Should be water under the bridge.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        One of the more ironic aspects of the war between capitalism-haters and socialism-haters is that they are so similar in their obsession with material wealth. They are each arranging deck chairs on the same Titanic.
                        To most people there's a big difference between the state owning all the wealth and it being owned privately.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                          Originally posted by Bill View Post
                          To most people there's a big difference between the state owning all the wealth and it being owned privately.
                          In either case the "wealth" is controlled by a relatively small group. If one is despised by the wealth controlling group, it doesn't really matter which type of system they live in.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                            Originally posted by sagard View Post
                            In either case the "wealth" is controlled by a relatively small group. If one is despised by the wealth controlling group, it doesn't really matter which type of system they live in.
                            A much smaller group controls the wealth in a Socialist system. There is much more opportunity for those in a Capitalist system to achieve some level of wealth. The possibility of it is more in their control, not the states control.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                              Originally posted by Bill View Post
                              But he doesn't throw all white southerners into the same bucket, particularly in recent decades. Should be water under the bridge.
                              Sowell pretty much is water under the bridge. He enjoyed a brief vogue but then faded because there is no dumbed-down philosophy that can easily digest him.

                              Suffice that his brand of "speak truth to power" isn't going to get him any fans on either Fox News or MSNBC. He doesn't go down well with any advertiser who wants to reassure their audience in their victimization, which is essentially the business model of those two outlets.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • #45
                                Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

                                Originally posted by Bill View Post
                                To most people there's a big difference between the state owning all the wealth and it being owned privately.
                                In our corner of our world, yeah. To, say, a Patrician Father, it wouldn't matter a bit. Jesus doesn't give a rip if it isn't your soul. (Jesus doesn't give a rip about your personal freedom, either. That's why real Christianity ceased being in widespread practice by about the 8th century.)
                                Last edited by Kepler; 09-21-2009, 09:52 PM.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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