Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

[WeWantMore]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

I totally agree that there are factions, and I'm very disappointed in that.
I like Ron Paul, and I definitely lean libertarian. That said, I would rather have a conservative in office than a liberal. Which is why I'm a little disappointed in the Tea Party, especially in Nevada, where they have decided to run an alternate candidate in general Senate race. That would hand the seat to Harry Reid in my opinion.

Mitch Daniels would be my 2012 candidate if I can't have a libertarian for what it's worth.

[ScottM]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

I totally agree that there are factions, and I'm very disappointed in that.
I like Ron Paul, and I definitely lean libertarian. That said, I would rather have a conservative in office than a liberal. Which is why I'm a little disappointed in the Tea Party, especially in Nevada, where they have decided to run an alternate candidate in general Senate race. That would hand the seat to Harry Reid in my opinion.

Which is basically what happened in upstate New York. As much as the Tea Party set may galvanize the GOP in some quarters, it also has the potential to create chasms that the Dems can exploit, in spite of their own issues. Moreover, at the national level, the GOP will still face the specter of trying to attract independents, moderates, and others not on the fringe. "Outrage" only goes so far in this system if you intend on winning.

[Rover]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

While I'm obviously rooting for them to fail, what the GOP needs to control is absolutists, and right now they're struggling with that. For example, take the Florida Senate race. Not only would Crist win that seat in a landslide, he'd have some real good credentials for a Presidential bid in a few years. Instead, apparently because he accepted stimulus funds for a rail project he's in a tough primary race with a guy who will most likely have more trouble winning the general election (the Dem candidate is weak, but if Crist looks like he's not going to get the nomination I'd expect them to try for a stronger candidate). This is the sort of contest the party doesn't need. However, in Nevada as you say, or even in Arizona with McCain a fringe candidate is going to use any time an officeholder did something in a bipartisan manner and exploit it.

To that end, the whole Scott Brown thing is being overplayed. Brown had no real primary to deal with, as it was a condensced election season, and he had the benefit of running against and absolutely clueless opponent who didn't campaign until the last week. In short, nobody really knew where he stood on issues. A guy like McCain for example isn't going to make that mistake facing a challenge from the right. What I'll be looking for is how much "bad blood" is there going to be if the established GOP candidate wins by attacking a true believer in the primaries, or if the insurgent wins, does the defeated moderate back the Dem instead (as in NY-24)?

[Red Cloud]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Which is why I'm a little disappointed in the Tea Party, especially in Nevada, where they have decided to run an alternate candidate in general Senate race. That would hand the seat to Harry Reid in my opinion.

The tea party movement as a "party" is stupid when there are qualified fiscal conservatives running in the GOP primary, which there are in the case of Nevada.

Where GOP isn't running fiscal conservatives, that's when I think a third party run is in order. We saw this in upstate New York last November when the GOP establishment chose a fiscal left-of-center candidate to run in a congressional seat. The Conservative Party nominated a fiscal conservative, and he did well enough to force the Republican out of the race (who later showed her true colors and endorsed the Democrat) and almost won it himself on the third party line. It forces the GOP to understand that they aren't entitled to the votes of fiscal conservatives if they don't run fiscal conservatives.

On a separate, unimportant note, your comment was the one in the last six that I saw, because everyone else is on my ignore list. I'm sure that was an enlightened, thought-provoking conversation.

[Patman]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Isn't that basically the Tea-baggers?

that's blatantly the most dishonest thing you've ever posted and you know it. Let me guess, everything conservative is racist because there aren't enough black people around to give it their seal of approval? Where's the race element of the tea party movement?

Then again, you're repeating a known slur... I shouldn't expect honesty.

[Patman]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

While I'm obviously rooting for them to fail, what the GOP needs to control is absolutists, and right now they're struggling with that. For example, take the Florida Senate race. Not only would Crist win that seat in a landslide, he'd have some real good credentials for a Presidential bid in a few years. Instead, apparently because he accepted stimulus funds for a rail project he's in a tough primary race with a guy who will most likely have more trouble winning the general election (the Dem candidate is weak, but if Crist looks like he's not going to get the nomination I'd expect them to try for a stronger candidate). This is the sort of contest the party doesn't need. However, in Nevada as you say, or even in Arizona with McCain a fringe candidate is going to use any time an officeholder did something in a bipartisan manner and exploit it.

To that end, the whole Scott Brown thing is being overplayed. Brown had no real primary to deal with, as it was a condensced election season, and he had the benefit of running against and absolutely clueless opponent who didn't campaign until the last week. In short, nobody really knew where he stood on issues. A guy like McCain for example isn't going to make that mistake facing a challenge from the right. What I'll be looking for is how much "bad blood" is there going to be if the established GOP candidate wins by attacking a true believer in the primaries, or if the insurgent wins, does the defeated moderate back the Dem instead (as in NY-24)?

Of course you believe this since you believe in your positions and as such there is a need for more "moderate" republicans to give you what you want.

Notice how I never call on democrats to elect and run more moderates... I don't because I don't expect them to do so and that its not my place to do that. Somehow we have to listen to democrats demonstrate what is and is not a proper republican.

Crist is an example of a "moderate" whom happens to agree with liberals with many non-social positions. How is it that the Dems always seem to like these social-cons anyhow? People like Crist bend over backward to show how smart and bipartisan they are. A "bipartisan" non-solution is just that... a non-solution... but it makes idiots feel better about themselves so at least they have that.

Oh, and lets recall NY-24 basically ran a liberal democrat in the Republican position... but since its a "republican" slot it gives Rover cover to call that person a republican and shift accordingly. I'm sorry, ideas and platforms get labels... the labels don't go searching for ideas and platforms. Pro-union liberalism doesn't become "conservative" and should hardly be a part of the "republican" party.

edit: Hell why not.

I'm asking for democrats to moderate and nominate real moderates... moderates as I see them and I shall call them. If the media and pundits can do then I can do it too. The partisan democrats need more people with moderate view points on fiscal sanity, constitutionalism, and personal responsibility. Ones that know we are a nation of laws and a nation of people whose individual rights trump the government's desire to solve society for the collective.

I bet it won't happen.

[Red Cloud]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Oh, and lets recall NY-24 basically ran a liberal democrat in the Republican position... but since its a "republican" slot it gives Rover cover to call that person a republican and shift accordingly. I'm sorry, ideas and platforms get labels... the labels don't go searching for ideas and platforms. Pro-union liberalism doesn't become "conservative" and should hardly be a part of the "republican" party.

It was NY-23 (my district).

Most people didn't get the lessons of NY-23, on both sides. Democrats smirked because they won a seat that has been Republican since the Civil War and they think it was thanks to the tea party movement. They're right, but not in the way they think.

The GOP, without a primary, selected a pro-abortion fiscal liberal, or at the very least, a pro-abortion fiscal left of center candidate. They thought she was the best candidate because she was an elected representative, where the other people running were mere citizens. They ignored the tea party movement, and paid the price. Lots of registered Republicans weren't interested in voting for her and preferred to support a third party candidate. She dropped out when she realized she was in third place and then, partially out of spite and partially because she is, as conservatives had been saying for weeks, closer to the Democrat, she endorsed the Democrat. When was the last time you saw a Republican candidate at any stage of an election drop out and endorse the OTHER party, especially after the GOP spent over $1 million on her campaign?

Unfortunately, some tea party advocates took the election to mean that they need to mount third party campaigns everywhere. In this situation, where there was no primary and the candidate was considered wholly unacceptable for good reason, there was a use for a 3rd party. In the case like Nevada, where there are multiple fiscal conservatives running in a GOP primary, there's NO reason for a third party.

[Patman]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

It was NY-23 (my district).

Most people didn't get the lessons of NY-23, on both sides. Democrats smirked because they won a seat that has been Republican since the Civil War and they think it was thanks to the tea party movement. They're right, but not in the way they think.

The GOP, without a primary, selected a pro-abortion fiscal liberal, or at the very least, a pro-abortion fiscal left of center candidate. They thought she was the best candidate because she was an elected representative, where the other people running were mere citizens. They ignored the tea party movement, and paid the price. Lots of registered Republicans weren't interested in voting for her and preferred to support a third party candidate. She dropped out when she realized she was in third place and then, partially out of spite and partially because she is, as conservatives had been saying for weeks, closer to the Democrat, she endorsed the Democrat. When was the last time you saw a Republican candidate at any stage of an election drop out and endorse the OTHER party, especially after the GOP spent over $1 million on her campaign?

Unfortunately, some tea party advocates took the election to mean that they need to mount third party campaigns everywhere. In this situation, where there was no primary and the candidate was considered wholly unacceptable for good reason, there was a use for a 3rd party. In the case like Nevada, where there are multiple fiscal conservatives running in a GOP primary, there's NO reason for a third party.

enthusiasm is good... but you have to take a look around at times.... but i think that's a lot of frustration due to a feeling that things are slipping beyond your own grasp which is what the tea party folks feel. Things have gone off the rails and now they're finding that they have enough of an ability to exert influence. You don't want to get into a needless fragging cycle... though Scozzofava deserved it. How the hell do you nominate that in a staunch republican district.

[Red Cloud]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

You don't want to get into a needless fragging cycle... though Scozzofava deserved it. How the hell do you nominate that in a staunch republican district.

Her best friend in the Assembly (also a loser) is also the chairwoman of the most powerful GOP county committee in the district. She pulled weight.

Both are apparently being primaried.

[Rover]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Of course you believe this since you believe in your positions and as such there is a need for more "moderate" republicans to give you what you want.

Notice how I never call on democrats to elect and run more moderates... I don't because I don't expect them to do so and that its not my place to do that. Somehow we have to listen to democrats demonstrate what is and is not a proper republican.

Crist is an example of a "moderate" whom happens to agree with liberals with many non-social positions. How is it that the Dems always seem to like these social-cons anyhow? People like Crist bend over backward to show how smart and bipartisan they are. A "bipartisan" non-solution is just that... a non-solution... but it makes idiots feel better about themselves so at least they have that.

Oh, and lets recall NY-24 basically ran a liberal democrat in the Republican position... but since its a "republican" slot it gives Rover cover to call that person a republican and shift accordingly. I'm sorry, ideas and platforms get labels... the labels don't go searching for ideas and platforms. Pro-union liberalism doesn't become "conservative" and should hardly be a part of the "republican" party.

edit: Hell why not.

I'm asking for democrats to moderate and nominate real moderates... moderates as I see them and I shall call them. If the media and pundits can do then I can do it too. The partisan democrats need more people with moderate view points on fiscal sanity, constitutionalism, and personal responsibility. Ones that know we are a nation of laws and a nation of people whose individual rights trump the government's desire to solve society for the collective.

I bet it won't happen.

A couple of points:

1) Fiscal conservitives in the GOP don't exist, and you're clinging to a long disregared myth if you think they do. Do you really think McConnell and The Boner if they become Senate Majority Leader and Speaker respectively are suddenly going to go on a deficit cutting spree? Do you also believe in Santa Claus? What you will get is a re-enactment of Bush era tax breaks for big GOP campaign contributors, financed by deficit spending.

2) I make no apologies for longing for GOP Senate representation that include such people as Dole, Rudman, Danforth, Warner, Chafee, etc - people who were traditional conservatives (as opposed to nut job cons that we have now) but would work with the other side and not reflexively try to block all legislation. Right now the current GOP is run by and stocked with idiots. Having Inhofe, Hatch, Coburn, DeMint, and Chambliss running the Senate is a disaster and far worse that what we have now, and maybe what we'd had in generations. Look no further than the current jobs bill, essentially a tax break for hiring. Despite its limited scope, you had two moderates (Snowe & Collins), one unknown (Brown) and two people retiring (Voinovich and Bond) voting for a bill that for all purposes encompasses alleged conservative principles. Why didn't more GOP'ers vote for it? Partisan idiots, pure and simple.

[WeWantMore]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

A couple of points:

1) Fiscal conservitives in the GOP don't exist, and you're clinging to a long disregared myth if you think they do. Do you really think McConnell and The Boner if they become Senate Majority Leader and Speaker respectively are suddenly going to go on a deficit cutting spree? Do you also believe in Santa Claus? What you will get is a re-enactment of Bush era tax breaks for big GOP campaign contributors, financed by deficit spending.

2) I make no apologies for longing for GOP Senate representation that include such people as Dole, Rudman, Danforth, Warner, Chafee, etc - people who were traditional conservatives (as opposed to nut job cons that we have now) but would work with the other side and not reflexively try to block all legislation. Right now the current GOP is run by and stocked with idiots. Having Inhofe, Hatch, Coburn, DeMint, and Chambliss running the Senate is a disaster and far worse that what we have now, and maybe what we'd had in generations. Look no further than the current jobs bill, essentially a tax break for hiring. Despite its limited scope, you had two moderates (Snowe & Collins), one unknown (Brown) and two people retiring (Voinovich and Bond) voting for a bill that for all purposes encompasses alleged conservative principles. Why didn't more GOP'ers vote for it? Partisan idiots, pure and simple.

You should love McConnell, he's way too moderate for my liking.

[rufus]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

that's blatantly the most dishonest thing you've ever posted and you know it. Let me guess, everything conservative is racist because there aren't enough black people around to give it their seal of approval? Where's the race element of the tea party movement?

Then again, you're repeating a known slur... I shouldn't expect honesty.

yeah, cry me a river.

[Red Cloud]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

I see Rover's off his meds again.

[rufus]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Ones that know we are a nation of laws and a nation of people whose individual rights trump the government's desire to solve society for the collective.

If you're calling for Dems to do this, why don't you call for Repubs to start doing it first?

Or I guess you like warrantless wiretapping, seizing private property to hand over to businesses, bringing government to a halt to legislate on people's private medical decisions, etc.

[rufus]

Re: Ron Paul wins CPAC Straw Poll

Her best friend in the Assembly (also a loser) is also the chairwoman of the most powerful GOP county committee in the district. She pulled weight.

Both are apparently being primaried.

I thought it was disgraceful and just crass to run someone against your party's incumbent in a primary? At least, that's what you Repubs were telling us about Joe Lieberman.