2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[Spartanforlife4]

It literally doesn’t matter who I vote for in minnesota. Even this time around where Harris tried really hard to lose it.

People still think this way after 2016?

[RaceBoarder]

All you need to say.

The administration had the chance to address the issue. They didn't. That's why a huge chunk of potential voters walked to the other side.

People don't care how the sausage is made with things like this. They just care about results.

That's the point that seems to be missed. The Dems didn't convey that message to most of the country.

[aparch]

People still think this way after 2016?

Yep. Seeing a lot of "Illinois stayed blue <3" on social media, which is hilarious because this was the worst performance by a Democrat in Illinois since 1988. We're literally a battleground state now.

[aparch]

That's the point that seems to be missed. The Dems didn't convey that message to most of the country.

I'm sorry, was Katie Porter supposed to be wheeled out and beat everyone over the head personally with graphs and charts? And you expect them to listen? No one listened to her in Congress when she did it.

Those "who weren't messaged to" said they "felt" the economy was in the sh*tter. When told that the rate of inflation was back to pre-pandemic rates (or close), cries of "my eggs are still expensive!" went up. When told that the egg producers f*cking colluded to artificially inflate egg prices, your "un-messaged" voter went "Nah, can't be. Biden hasn't done **** to fix it."

Your "un-messaged" whined that Kamala, the "Border Czar" (which, isn't a real thing and never happened anyway) helped hold the gate open at the broder for all the illegals. Actual facts again were thrown out showing crossings were down, illegals captured were up, and the Border Patrol was doing their damn job. "But we're told that a whole town of illegals are eating cats and dogs!" No, the "un-messaged" were fed a straight up lie by JD Vance (about his own state!) and by the GOP. They *admitted* it was a lie.

VANCE TOLD A NATIONAL TELEVISION AUDIENCE THAT HE WAS TOLD THEY WOULDN'T FACT CHECK HIS LIES.

I can go on and on, so excuse me for not believing all that was missing was messaging. Really hard to get people's attention with facts when you have fire trucks, a circus, a marching band, and fireworks distracting everyone.

[Whalers]

I will enjoy every lower middle class and poor R voter going broke while I double our net worth over the 4 years.

The great deal you worked on that Camry loan will sure help jump start the process. Glad you listened to your hero Dave Ramsey's advice.

[RaceBoarder]

I'm sorry, was Katie Porter supposed to be wheeled out and beat everyone over the head personally with graphs and charts? And you expect them to listen? No one listened to her in Congress when she did it.

Those "who weren't messaged to" said they "felt" the economy was in the sh*tter. When told that the rate of inflation was back to pre-pandemic rates (or close), cries of "my eggs are still expensive!" went up. When told that the egg producers f*cking colluded to artificially inflate egg prices, your "un-messaged" voter went "Nah, can't be. Biden hasn't done **** to fix it."

Your "un-messaged" whined that Kamala, the "Border Czar" (which, isn't a real thing and never happened anyway) helped hold the gate open at the broder for all the illegals. Actual facts again were thrown out showing crossings were down, illegals captured were up, and the Border Patrol was doing their damn job. "But we're told that a whole town of illegals are eating cats and dogs!" No, the "un-messaged" were fed a straight up lie by JD Vance (about his own state!) and by the GOP. They *admitted* it was a lie.

VANCE TOLD A NATIONAL TELEVISION AUDIENCE THAT HE WAS TOLD THEY WOULDN'T FACT CHECK HIS LIES.

I can go on and on, so excuse me for not believing all that was missing was messaging. Really hard to get people's attention with facts when you have fire trucks, a circus, a marching band, and fireworks distracting everyone.

Which shows the problem...

Brian Tyler Cohen put out a video talking about how the R's have a 24/7 propaganda machine to sell their talking points to the masses. Whether it's dedicated TV channels (Fox), Podcasts (Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, etc.) or just random stuff on social media.

They are making the most of the current environment. Yea, I fully agree that it's a bunch of BS and Lies that are spouted. But currently the D's can't counter that.

With this particular example we are citing, you have to remember that (most) people don't have the most basic understanding of the economic trends in play, yet you are talking to them in college level terms.

It would be like me coming on this board and talking to y'all about the nuance of how a Rapala SR-7 runs different than a Strike King KVD 1.5-DD. Do any of you know what I just referenced? Let alone will you understand the actual differences I can elaborate on between the two things.

That's what went on over the past few years. Dems talked over the heads of much of the country. And people realized they were talking over them, so they looked for someone that they could understand and connect with. Specifically, white males between 18 and 35.

[ericredaxe]

I'm sorry, was Katie Porter supposed to be wheeled out and beat everyone over the head personally with graphs and charts? And you expect them to listen? No one listened to her in Congress when she did it.

Those "who weren't messaged to" said they "felt" the economy was in the sh*tter. When told that the rate of inflation was back to pre-pandemic rates (or close), cries of "my eggs are still expensive!" went up. When told that the egg producers f*cking colluded to artificially inflate egg prices, your "un-messaged" voter went "Nah, can't be. Biden hasn't done **** to fix it."

Your "un-messaged" whined that Kamala, the "Border Czar" (which, isn't a real thing and never happened anyway) helped hold the gate open at the broder for all the illegals. Actual facts again were thrown out showing crossings were down, illegals captured were up, and the Border Patrol was doing their damn job. "But we're told that a whole town of illegals are eating cats and dogs!" No, the "un-messaged" were fed a straight up lie by JD Vance (about his own state!) and by the GOP. They *admitted* it was a lie.

VANCE TOLD A NATIONAL TELEVISION AUDIENCE THAT HE WAS TOLD THEY WOULDN'T FACT CHECK HIS LIES.

I can go on and on, so excuse me for not believing all that was missing was messaging. Really hard to get people's attention with facts when you have fire trucks, a circus, a marching band, and fireworks distracting everyone.

Propaganda works better than actual policy discussion. You know - how Hitler did it.

[aparch]

Which shows the problem...

The Republicans have had a 30 year head start.

This isn't a "Dems are terrible at messaging," problem, or a "TikTok is platforming Na*i's" problem, or a "Elon made Twitter super right wing problem," it's an "AM radio disembodied voices hate-yelling lies has created a generational problem."


Oh, your example is two fishing reels isn't it? Gonna Google now to see if I'm right. Nope, fishing lure.

Using your example let's say you want to message in support of the Rapela SR-7. On your podcast, you're gonna break down pros and cons of both. Describe the nuanced differences in similar color styles, maybe angle of the barb on the hooks, or the quantity of hooks on the lure. Dig up some dusty stats about how in lakes with an average temperature of 53F or colder, which happen to be where a majority of your listeners fish, the Rapela is the better brand.

Meanwhile, I've got a podcast that wants to promote the Strike King. I could do the same, but I want to get people interested. I'm gonna yell and sh*t on the Rapela product. The lime green on the Strike King is miles ahead of the safety yellow coward color on the Rapela. The extra barb on the Strike King hook (in reality a manufacturing defect) really rips into the fish for an extra hold when you're fighting for your life reeling in a Marlin. Oh, the Strike King absolutely can attract Marlin. F*ck your Rapela only able to catch minnows and maybe a trout. Strike King has concepts of a plan on being able to self fillet your fish for you as well. You'll hear more in two weeks. So go get you a salt water Marlin from your fresh water lake, go buy a Strike King! Oh! And we promise that the Strike King will also lower the cost of your next fishing license! Pinky promise!

On some alternate reality fishing forum, Scooby rightfully points out how terrible the messaging is about the Rapela. Handy says he's bartended for the Strike King representatives and they all brag about using the Rapela. Kepler works for a dynamite company that is guaranteed to get you *all* of the fish. Trix only uses Storm Tundersticks because his lure doesn't matter. Jeb! says he only fishes using a 1996 Honda Civic as bait.

And then the entire world is caught off guard when the Strike King is a better seller at the same time while people haven't gotten discounts on fishing licenses OR caught a Marlin yet.




TL;DR... Eric summed it up succinctly.

[dxmnkd316]

Did you read my original post?

You really do feel like you're talking down to people like me. Address that.

IDGAF who is responsible, I want change on this front, and it didn't happen. So yea, this is a legit reason why D's lost this election and why many young people gave them the finger in the process.

Get off your high horse. You really are acting like an elite ***** who makes $250k+/year. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

I think you need to reread what I wrote. Because you so very missed it if that's what you took from it

[dxmnkd316]

Which shows the problem...

Brian Tyler Cohen put out a video talking about how the R's have a 24/7 propaganda machine to sell their talking points to the masses. Whether it's dedicated TV channels (Fox), Podcasts (Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, etc.) or just random stuff on social media.

They are making the most of the current environment. Yea, I fully agree that it's a bunch of BS and Lies that are spouted. But currently the D's can't counter that.

With this particular example we are citing, you have to remember that (most) people don't have the most basic understanding of the economic trends in play, yet you are talking to them in college level terms.

It would be like me coming on this board and talking to y'all about the nuance of how a Rapala SR-7 runs different than a Strike King KVD 1.5-DD. Do any of you know what I just referenced? Let alone will you understand the actual differences I can elaborate on between the two things.

That's what went on over the past few years. Dems talked over the heads of much of the country. And people realized they were talking over them, so they looked for someone that they could understand and connect with. Specifically, white males between 18 and 35.

Specifically what would you have the dems do? .

[aparch]

Specifically what would you have the dems do? .

A giant satchel of non-sequental bills, invent a time machine, travel to February 1981, buy an AM radio station or twelve, produce a half hour syndicated TV program, and hire Ed Bradley to host it all with the leftiest of f*cking leftist messaging for two decades.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The administration had the chance to address the issue. They didn't. That's why a huge chunk of potential voters walked to the other side.

They did address it, and they messaged repeatedly on how they addressed it. The rate of inflation has since declined to normal, healthy levels. What his voters expect is a deflationary fantasyland where Dump waves his hand and we go back to $2 gas and $5 burrito bowls, with no cuts to wages or wage growth, and without an economic depression. How do you ELI5 to them that what they want isn't possible unless everyone suffers? And even when you do, a lot of them will say, "Then let everyone suffer. We need to rip off the bandage."

So no, it's not my responsibility to educate these obstinate fcksticks. They've made their choice and now everyone who voted for another 4 years of the clownshow can suffer the consequences. I'm not going to offer them my sympathy or help. I'm confident that I'll make out just fine even if there is an economic shock.

[dxmnkd316]

A giant satchel of non-sequental bills, invent a time machine, travel to February 1981, buy an AM radio station or twelve, produce a half hour syndicated TV program, and hire Ed Bradley to host it all with the leftiest of f*cking leftist messaging for two decades.

I know you're joking but I think it's telling the only media outlet the liberals own is The Onion.

NBC and MSNBC have literal republican hosts. About half. Larry O'Donnell, Maddow, and Hayes are good as well.

but anyways, no major papers. No radio. Not many (any?) local tv stations. Our propaganda machine needs a massive tune-up

edit: I guess you can call Mother Jones, Slate, and to some extent Vox liberal owned. But they're tiny niche markets.

[rufus]

Did you read my original post?

You really do feel like you're talking down to people like me. Address that.

IDGAF who is responsible, I want change on this front, and it didn't happen. So yea, this is a legit reason why D's lost this election and why many young people gave them the finger in the process.

Get off your high horse. You really are acting like an elite ***** who makes $250k+/year. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

So you don't GAF about why prices for eggs was so high, you just find it easier to biitch and blame Joe Biden for it, and whine about why doesn't he do something about it?

Just what exactly do you want him to do to fix that?

[RaceBoarder]

The Republicans have had a 30 year head start.

This isn't a "Dems are terrible at messaging," problem, or a "TikTok is platforming Na*i's" problem, or a "Elon made Twitter super right wing problem," it's an "AM radio disembodied voices hate-yelling lies has created a generational problem."


Oh, your example is two fishing reels isn't it? Gonna Google now to see if I'm right. Nope, fishing lure.

Using your example let's say you want to message in support of the Rapela SR-7. On your podcast, you're gonna break down pros and cons of both. Describe the nuanced differences in similar color styles, maybe angle of the barb on the hooks, or the quantity of hooks on the lure. Dig up some dusty stats about how in lakes with an average temperature of 53F or colder, which happen to be where a majority of your listeners fish, the Rapela is the better brand.

Meanwhile, I've got a podcast that wants to promote the Strike King. I could do the same, but I want to get people interested. I'm gonna yell and sh*t on the Rapela product. The lime green on the Strike King is miles ahead of the safety yellow coward color on the Rapela. The extra barb on the Strike King hook (in reality a manufacturing defect) really rips into the fish for an extra hold when you're fighting for your life reeling in a Marlin. Oh, the Strike King absolutely can attract Marlin. F*ck your Rapela only able to catch minnows and maybe a trout. Strike King has concepts of a plan on being able to self fillet your fish for you as well. You'll hear more in two weeks. So go get you a salt water Marlin from your fresh water lake, go buy a Strike King! Oh! And we promise that the Strike King will also lower the cost of your next fishing license! Pinky promise!

On some alternate reality fishing forum, Scooby rightfully points out how terrible the messaging is about the Rapela. Handy says he's bartended for the Strike King representatives and they all brag about using the Rapela. Kepler works for a dynamite company that is guaranteed to get you *all* of the fish. Trix only uses Storm Tundersticks because his lure doesn't matter. Jeb! says he only fishes using a 1996 Honda Civic as bait.

And then the entire world is caught off guard when the Strike King is a better seller at the same time while people haven't gotten discounts on fishing licenses OR caught a Marlin yet.




TL;DR... Eric summed it up succinctly.

The point I was gonna make is that talking about boring, statistical things (in this case: lip design, body material, internal components, hook/split ring branding, etc.) to people who have no background in this will cause them to check out. People realize that it's technical jargon they don't understand, so they lose interest quickly.

That is what the D's have been/currrently do. That is what happened with the economy discussion. They couldn't dumb down the rhetoric enough so that 1/2 of America could understand it. They also couldn't frame it in a way where people would table their own personal frustrations with our current reality to actually step back and listen.

That was the fundamental breakdown of what happened over the last six months.

Specifically what would you have the dems do? .

For starters, stop degrading rural/southern America. This is just as bad as R's vilifying Black/Brown people. You just got beat by a bunch of young, rural white men. They see themselves in a fight to keep THEIR culture alive. And currently they feel as if they are backed into a corner, so this is why you have the reaction you saw on Tuesday.

Realize that "dumb" people have a vote. You need to reach out to them somehow, some way. Don't just push them aside like they don't matter. Get boots on the ground in rural America.

Build a propaganda network. This comes from the top, but D's need to step away from mainstream media and push agendas through social media/podcasts/etc. instead of broadcast/cable TV. BTC specifically mentioned how he struggled to get interviews for his own media outlets because the people at the top didn't give him the time of day.