2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The horseshoe closes

[Handyman]

Thing is, plenty of Ds say they are tough on illegal immigration’s. So just add to the border specific thing and add companies that use illegal immigrants. Who are not just coming from the south, but are being imported via human trafficking- which is another thing Rs pretend they care about. If their companies are working the trafficked humans….

It should bother people that we jail and deport people but the companies that work them (provide reasons to cross the border) don’t seem to have any consequence to their actions. They should be held to account for their actions.

Yeah...it doesn't. It didn't back when I was in college and people talked about it and it doesn't now. Most people could give two craps about the border or immigrants having jobs...especially people center or left. It only ever becomes a big deal during elections.

You have a strange naivete about this election that is why I asked if you are in the US because honestly that would make a lot of sense.

[Handyman]

The thing is by democratizing information we gave everyone access to everything which is great, but we also gave everyone a voice which is not. There is a lot of people who will believe anything they read or see because they are illiterate either functionally or educationally. I mean seriously...they are falling for the same scams people ran in the dustbowl. Cloudseeding to make storms stronger? Jesus that is such a tired played out con they once did it on Quantum Leap...

Normally I believe there is a spectrum to the people who vote for both parties...but in this election anyone who makes the choice to vote for him for any reason will forever be painted by all of the reasons people vote for him. If you can ignore the racism and sexism because you think his economic policies are great well congrats you are a racist and a sexist. If you are fine with him eroding personal freedoms and bankrupting the country and social programs because you think the border is an issue...well then don't come crying to Minnesota when you get hit with a phucking hurricane. When someone is so bad Dick Cheney won't vote for him and is voting Dem that should tell you everything you need to know.

But the truth is, no one is holding their nose to vote for him, they are doing so willingly and they revel in the fact that people hate them. They are like JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle...they get off on it. They made their peace with it. The ones who are culted up to the point of insanity...well they will wake up and regret it but likely well after it is too late. Watch any of the The Good Liars videos from Trump Rallies you will see exactly who these people are.

[Handyman]

I think this is why Tim walz was such a good pick. A Milwaukee paper had a column about him this week and how we needed a dem voice that was not from the coasts. He talks in a way that relates to people and he’s gotten crap DONE because he had a small window in MN.

I am not suggesting the Dems moderate their stance - but he can get through to the crowds that don’t fall completely into maga. People like that are winnable here (rather than focusing on the children tantruming in Michigan)

I saw an interview with Dave Weigel and he was talking about how the Uncommitted in Michigan have said that they won't endorse Harris but they are all telling their people to "Not to vote for Trump and not to vote third party" basically resigned to the fact that Harris is the only choice. Dave is usually pretty pessimistic but even he seems to think enough will vote that it won't make a difference which is why I am not really worried about them. I don't care if they endorse...I don't think that really matters.

(part of his positivity about it is how well Slotkin seems to be doing and she is not exactly shy about supporting Israel)

[mookie1995]

https://x.com/sethabramson/status/18...1j4RxxFX2KExbw

[bronconick]

Republican push poller American Pulse went to Trump University.

Trump 51%
Harris 50%

[MichVandal]

Yeah...it doesn't. It didn't back when I was in college and people talked about it and it doesn't now. Most people could give two craps about the border or immigrants having jobs...especially people center or left. It only ever becomes a big deal during elections.

You have a strange naivete about this election that is why I asked if you are in the US because honestly that would make a lot of sense.

So you are ok with punishing the immigrant but not the companies who give them jobs? Makes no sense.

People do care about immigration, or it would not be an issues that Ds also talk about. And illegal immigration has multiple layers, one of which is a job market that is very much there to take. Or people would not bother coming to send money home.

Let alone we never talk about sending some kind of help to the countries people are fleeing from. Labor is cheap there, too. Maybe help companies set up shop there- the path to import goods from Central America is pretty robust already.

But, hey, ignore all of those ads that talk tough on the border as nobody cares, that’s fine.

[Handyman]

Republican push poller American Pulse went to Trump University.

Trump 51%
Harris 50%

Please tell me that is real...because I so want Trump to quote this at a rally! (if he can actually talk and not freeze up that is)

[rufus]

Saw a report of some interview a Dumpy surrogate gave in a podcast. Basically saying, Trump voters don't care how racist he is, how unintelligible he is, how his policies will end up hurting them in the end. All they care about is by voting for Trump, they gave a big middle finger to the rest of America, and that wasn't enough for them, so they're gonna give a big middle finger again.

Like Drew with his trolling, they just get off listening to everyone complain how bad Trump is, how much they hate him. Pizzing off the libs is all they want to do, that's what they get off on. They probably really would vote for Hitler if he was running, just cause it would pizza off the libturds.

[Handyman]

So you are ok with punishing the immigrant but not the companies who give them jobs? Makes no sense.

People do care about immigration, or it would not be an issues that Ds also talk about. And illegal immigration has multiple layers, one of which is a job market that is very much there to take. Or people would not bother coming to send money home.

Let alone we never talk about sending some kind of help to the countries people are fleeing from. Labor is cheap there, too. Maybe help companies set up shop there- the path to import goods from Central America is pretty robust already.

But, hey, ignore all of those ads that talk tough on the border as nobody cares, that’s fine.

Are you actually reading what anyone is saying? This isn't about us Harris doesn't have to convince us of anything. I dont think many around here would have much of an issue with holding the corporations accountable but that is likely never going to happen. The Dems would rather find a way to just make it legal and easy for them to work and the GOP would never do anything to make Daddy mad.

If Immigration was something people cared about it would be an issue when there isn't elections. There is a reason this is only ever discussed in election years. (where all all those migrant caravans in off years?) There is a reason there hasn't been reform of the immigration system or policies in years. If people cared, they would hold their elected officials accountable. Neither side does that because to the majority of Americans Immigration is just not moving the needle unless they live in a border state. (and even then polling doesn't match voting record) In Red States and Blue States they are literally begging immigrants to come to revive their dying towns...many of those towns with people who don't vote Blue mind you.

If ads are the measure to what is important, then you must think Trans People are the second most important issue since that is also what the Right is doubling down on ads about in Battleground States.

Look, if you are right then this election is about to go sideways for the GOP in worse ways than even I think. If Immigration is the issue that Americans care about as highly as you think then Trump is going to lose Bigly for killing the Reform Bill (I mean the Senate Republicans have spent weeks reminding the world he killed it) and a lot of Reps and Senators are going to be out of a job for going along with it. I hope you are right but I don't think that is happening.

[unofan]

But, of course, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where getting an id, getting a drivers license, getting some sort of proof that you are who you say you are, is just too darn hard.

Because Republicans want it that way.

To get an ID in Iowa, you have to go to a state-run DOT office (you can renew online or by kiosk once before having to come back in-person to renew). Shockingly, the ones in the cities where people actually live are understaffed and constantly have ginormous lines, even if you book an appointment ahead of time online, because they're also blue. Those of us with means can travel one county over; I literally just had a discussion yesterday with a coworker who had to go 30 minutes away to get her kid his learner's permit because that was still more convenient than waiting in the Polk County (Des Moines) office.

And this is in a state that, for all its faults, still has some semblance of regular order. You really think in a place like Alabama that the Black Belt counties are given the same resources as the places full of white folk?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Slotkin's race has been over since their respective war chests were announced in June and hers was 3-4x larger than his. She's also enjoyed a 4-1 advantage in fundraising all summer. The Michigan GOP is broke.

[psych]

https://x.com/sethabramson/status/18...1j4RxxFX2KExbw

This follows along with women +21% for Harris…if it all holds like that…bye, Don.

[rufus]

I don't think immigration is an issue at all for most Americans until certain politicians start stirring them all up over it because of political considerations. Nobody gets riled up about immigration until politicians and the media start poking them about it.

Sorta like the deficit. Right Drew?

[Slap Shot]

https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/1846511292510568533

James Carville said on our pod that a sleeper demographic to watch in this race is college educated white men who don't like what Dobbs means for their daughters and other female loved ones.

Well, the new Marist poll finds Harris leading among them 59-39