2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[Handyman]

Maybe the employers you know would be "happy" but that is the exception not the rule especially when discussing the types of jobs immigrants tend to work. Most of those employers would like it to be easier to ignore.

But don't let that get in the way of your rant about how it is "our fault" somehow.

[MichVandal]

Why? That's easy. That's the way you guys wanted it.

When someone applies to work with an employer, the employer has the duty to have the I-9 form completed, and to ask that the applicant produce the required, acceptable documents.

That's great, and employers who don't do that should be punished. Except every employer does that, because it's easy to do.

The tricky part is in the acceptable documents. You don't get to just say, "no social security card, no job." That's discrimination.

They show you a document that's within the category of acceptable documents, but it sort of looks a little fishy to you. You can't just say, "pass, no job." Any document that "reasonably appears to be genuine" must be accepted. Do you want to make that call, when if you call it wrong you face a discrimination lawsuit?

I can tell you that the easier you want to make it on employers, the happier they'll be. You want a system where the employee must produce a social security card, or no job, every employer I know will sign on immediately.

But, of course, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where getting an id, getting a drivers license, getting some sort of proof that you are who you say you are, is just too darn hard, and we shouldn't expect people to be so inconvenienced.

That comes across as more bs than actual reality. There are only three forms of ID: citizen, legal resident, and legal immigrant. All of them require some government interaction for taxes, especially since SS is paid by non citizens and don’t qualify for it. Unless, of course, the company keeps the employment off the books and does not report it. Which seems to be against the law.

What kind of employment does not require reporting so that proper taxes are not paid??? Please tell us how fake documents can pay legal, required, payroll tax.

[rufus]

I believe Florida was going to try that, or did try that for a small period of time, to use eVerify or whatever the TIN matching is, and the construction industry raised a fit.

Yup. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

Hell, Devin Nunes' family farm employed illegals. They're never going to go after their corporate overlords.

[Handyman]

I have a question for you all- for the illegal immigration agenda, why is it only about securing the border? Why doesn’t anyone talk about going after the people who employ them? I very much remember back in the 80’s when I went to work at McDs, I had to show proof of citizenship- which was a copy of my SS card. Employers were required to prove that everyone who worked there were legal workers.

But at the same time, you heard about raids on SE ID farms getting illegals then. Never really heard about farmers facing charges for having them there. And now, a friend has a vineyard in CA, and he supported dumpy because of his immigration standing. I challenged him if he was 100% sure the immigrants who did his farming were all legal, and he could not.

Most of the people who illegally cross the border do it for work. Which is THE main reason they are on the low end of crime. So SOMEONE is hiring them. Illegally.

We never talk about the companies who hire illegal immigrants, ever. Especially when they are big companies like meat processors (who have plenty of evidence that they hire illegals).

How about we ask to enforce the standing laws to not hire illegal immigrants as opposed to building a wall or hiring more border protection? It’s a lot cheaper.

Why are you even pretending they are speaking about anything legitimate. They don't care about illegal immigration or the border...if they did this discussion wouldn't be happening. The only reason they are making it an issue is to appease the racists that make up their base nowadays. If the immigrants were from Canada do you really think there would be a push to secure the border?

Immigration is just code for "Black and Brown".

[rufus]

Why? That's easy. That's the way you guys wanted it.



But, of course, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where getting an id, getting a drivers license, getting some sort of proof that you are who you say you are, is just too darn hard, and we shouldn't expect people to be so inconvenienced.

W tee eff are you rambling on about? Inconvenienced to get an ID or driver's license. The way"you guys" want it?

Who's in favor of voter ID laws, and Voter ID, and who's saying if you want Voter ID then you should make it available free for everyone?

I'm all for having to show a SS number to get hired. I don't know who isn't. That the government says other documents will do, and you accept wonky ones cause you're afraid of being sued, that's on you.

Man up, big tough Republican guys. Who knew you were all such puzzies?

[MichVandal]

Why are you even pretending they are speaking about anything legitimate. They don't care about illegal immigration or the border...if they did this discussion wouldn't be happening. The only reason they are making it an issue is to appease the racists that make up their base nowadays. If the immigrants were from Canada do you really think there would be a push to secure the border?

Immigration is just code for "Black and Brown".

Democrats can talk, too. We should be bringing it up to make it more obvious that it’s about being racist as opposed to what they claim. I’m betting some big r donors are big into hiring illegals for slave price labor.

[jericho]

I was talking to someone who loves attending Saratoga Race Course in the summer up here. He was ranting about how upstate NY has an illegal immigration problem and nothings being done, blah blah blah. He did mention going after the employers and punishing them for having illegals work, so I salts him rant and casually said “I agree, let’s go after NYRA and the horse trainers who employ these people on the backstretch.” After he called me a few derogatory names, I’ve never been blocked so fast in my life.

[Slap Shot]

That comes across as more bs than actual reality. There are only three forms of ID: citizen, legal resident, and legal immigrant. All of them require some government interaction for taxes, especially since SS is paid by non citizens and don’t qualify for it. Unless, of course, the company keeps the employment off the books and does not report it. Which seems to be against the law.

What kind of employment does not require reporting so that proper taxes are not paid??? Please tell us how fake documents can pay legal, required, payroll tax.

[Handyman]

Democrats can talk, too. We should be bringing it up to make it more obvious that it’s about being racist as opposed to what they claim. I’m betting some big r donors are big into hiring illegals for slave price labor.

What would be the purpose of that? Do you really think there are Republican or Independent Voters who will be swayed when they hear the Republicans are racist? Do you live in the United States? Everyone knows what this is that is why the Dems called their bluff on the Border Bill.

You seem to think that people are ill informed, they aren't. There is no subtext here, everything is out in the open. Why do you think Trump campaigned in Aurora and wanted to in Springfield...because the people he wants to reach hate Venezuelans and Haitians. Why do you think most people including a lot of his own party are against it? Because they dont want to be seen as being in league with that even though everyone already knows they are. Pointing out the very thing they are openly admitting is a waste of time.

[Kepler]

You seem to think that people are ill informed, they aren't.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Democrats can talk, too. We should be bringing it up to make it more obvious that it’s about being racist as opposed to what they claim. I’m betting some big r donors are big into hiring illegals for slave price labor.

I think this is why Tim walz was such a good pick. A Milwaukee paper had a column about him this week and how we needed a dem voice that was not from the coasts. He talks in a way that relates to people and he’s gotten crap DONE because he had a small window in MN.

I am not suggesting the Dems moderate their stance - but he can get through to the crowds that don’t fall completely into maga. People like that are winnable here (rather than focusing on the children tantruming in Michigan)

[psych]

Jimmy Carter has voted for Kamala

You can go now, Jimmy. Rest easy

That affable mf’er has to make it until she wins.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Trump loves working class people!

“Trump belittles auto workers, saying they just assemble parts “out of a box” and says children could do their jobs: “We could have our child do it”

[bronconick]

Trump loves working class people!

“Trump belittles auto workers, saying they just assemble parts “out of a box” and says children could do their jobs: “We could have our child do it”

That's another GOP plan. Why educate when you can work children full time cheaper to cover for all the immigrants you have in camps.

[MichVandal]

What would be the purpose of that? Do you really think there are Republican or Independent Voters who will be swayed when they hear the Republicans are racist? Do you live in the United States? Everyone knows what this is that is why the Dems called their bluff on the Border Bill.

You seem to think that people are ill informed, they aren't. There is no subtext here, everything is out in the open. Why do you think Trump campaigned in Aurora and wanted to in Springfield...because the people he wants to reach hate Venezuelans and Haitians. Why do you think most people including a lot of his own party are against it? Because they dont want to be seen as being in league with that even though everyone already knows they are. Pointing out the very thing they are openly admitting is a waste of time.

Thing is, plenty of Ds say they are tough on illegal immigration’s. So just add to the border specific thing and add companies that use illegal immigrants. Who are not just coming from the south, but are being imported via human trafficking- which is another thing Rs pretend they care about. If their companies are working the trafficked humans….

It should bother people that we jail and deport people but the companies that work them (provide reasons to cross the border) don’t seem to have any consequence to their actions. They should be held to account for their actions.