Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

[gojackets]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

If Russell ever got invited to play again though I'd have to think that he'd consider changing up his gameplay a little bit and learn that the previous two ways he played won't win him the money.

But, then again, it sounds like he doesn't care all too much. He certainly doesn't need the money. He won over 250K in the last year between the two seasons he played on Survivor and winning the money from Sprint as the player of the season.

He might have even won the player of the season in his first season, which would give him 350K between the two bonuses and his finish place money.

and according to him last season he is already a millionaire

[Kepler]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

I interpreted Russell saying that Parvati should have won as just another finger in Sandra's eye. It's true that he never gives anybody else credit, even when it's the right move strategically. He and Boston Rob are both classic authoritarian personalities, but Rob knows to hide it.

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

What's really funny about Russell is that it would not take much change to alter his game to "play to win" as little B put it- some of those "deceptions" were pointless, and getting directly into people faces were also dumb as well as pointless. Say that time he called Rupert a Dumb-A to his face- what value does that add? Or when he's telling people to their face- "that was a bad move" or "you should not have done that" - or whatever. The #1 bad move on his part was to belittle every other player.

And I think the way he went about ousting Danielle was probably the last nail in the coffin.

Anyway here is an interesting take about last night.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,2035...369851,00.html

And I think he stressed the point I made regarding Parvati below....

That is Russell's fatal flaw: He simply can't credit anyone else for anything. Although even he admitted that Parvati should have won this time around. And he's right. But Parvati simply couldn't get enough votes from the Heroes who had tried so desperately to get rid of her even before they had merged — think about how incredible that is. Has anyone ever been that targeted while on the other side of the island? Yet they then couldn't bring themselves to vote for her after they were so unsuccessful in their attempts. Also interesting to note: In terms of the Villains that played with Parvati and Sandra from the start, Parvati got three votes, Sandra got one.

[alfablue]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Russell took over the top of the standings from Little B Hat as the best player of all time when he assassinated him this season, but he would rise in my estimation if he were to play one more time and be all sweetness and light. That would be truly terrifying.

Who thinks Rob is the best player of all time??? I sure don't. Good, yes. But he's never won. 3 times around, now. His best move was to get engaged to the eventual winner.

As for Russell- I honestly think he will never be given the chance to be falsely sweet or nice- he'll be gone at vote 1. What's really funny about Russell is that it would not take much change to alter his game to "play to win" as little B put it- some of those "deceptions" were pointless, and getting directly into people faces were also dumb as well as pointless. Say that time he called Rupert a Dumb-A to his face- what value does that add? Or when he's telling people to their face- "that was a bad move" or "you should not have done that" - or whatever. The #1 bad move on his part was to belittle every other player.

Even more fun- with the numbers he generally had, he could have NOT voted for some of the people going out, and been truthful saying that he didn't vote for them. Just be wishy washy a few times, and a lot of that evil label goes away.

Still, I don't think he would ever do that- personal relationships are not part of the game to him, when it's pretty much the entire game.

[Kepler]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

She's done that twice now.... not win a thing until the final vote. I think Russell won the vote because of his play. Russell didn't take into account how much personal feelings are taken into account in the jury's vote. Russell thought that since they were "all stars" that they would vote based on game play and not personal feelings. He's played twice now and been burned twice by the same reason. They didn't vote based on play, they voted based on how much of an arsehole he is. (although, if based on gameplay, this one could have gone to either Parv or Russell and I'm leaning towards Parv on the greater number of challenges she won.) That said, Russell can never play this game again because he will be voted off quickly.

This is a perfect summary of the season and the final vote.

It would be interesting if there was a show on the jury sitting around while the last few weeks (in their time, days) play out. It seems like the people who stay in the game have a very different attitude towards the inevitable deceptions -- they take it more in stride. The jurors simmer in their own resentments. It was striking how juvenile many of the jurors' remarks were this time around. I think they must drink and kvetch and sharpen their grievances while sequestered.

I think this season did prove that you can't win only on the merits -- you have to have some of Parvati's false charm or Sandra's false sincerity. Because once you can fake those...

Russell took over the top of the standings from Little B Hat as the best player of all time when he assassinated him this season, but he would rise in my estimation if he were to play one more time and be all sweetness and light. That would be truly terrifying.

Oh, and my wife suggested they fire Peachy and make Coach the host. I agree 100%.

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

I wouldn't vote him off, I'd stick right with him. Clearly people won't vote to give him the money the way he plays, and that's the kind of person I would want sitting next to me at the end.

If Russell ever got invited to play again though I'd have to think that he'd consider changing up his gameplay a little bit and learn that the previous two ways he played won't win him the money.

But, then again, it sounds like he doesn't care all too much. He certainly doesn't need the money. He won over 250K in the last year between the two seasons he played on Survivor and winning the money from Sprint as the player of the season.

He might have even won the player of the season in his first season, which would give him 350K between the two bonuses and his finish place money.

[ajoyce02]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

That said, Russell can never play this game again because he will be voted off quickly.

I wouldn't vote him off, I'd stick right with him. Clearly people won't vote to give him the money the way he plays, and that's the kind of person I would want sitting next to me at the end.

[Chickens@NU]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

The worst thing- Russell has no idea why he lost. Twice. Not a clue. Well, or at least he just claims not to care at all. IMHO, the ONLY reason he made it that far was that nobody saw his season, and his style of play. They were *close* to doing it quick, but nobody put it all together early enough.

He was hoping that they would reward gameplay, but they did not. The consequences of his actions was something he couldn't see. He doesn't understand that personal feeling are taken into account more often in this game than actual gameplay. Backstabbing in the end didn't get him the win.

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Perhaps her tie to Russel was her undoing.

Which for the heroes is ridicuous when you think about. The heroes are the ones who tried to use Russell in order to get rid of Parvati before the merge. And when that failed, they had Amanda lie to her face in order to get her to play the idol. So in reality the heroes should have had no gripe with her whatsoever

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

I know he thinks he played everyone along the way and was control of the game, but I think it might have been the opposite this season. Parvati played him the entire way and Sandra played it brilliantly. Parvati knew she might end up going along with some things she didn't like along the way, but she also knew she could beat Russell in a jury vote because he would look like he made all of the calls because of his reactionary and aggressive nature.

To paraphrase Parvati...

"Russell was my dragon. I kept him around the entire game like a pet"

[alfablue]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Proof of Russell's dominant play: not only did he make the final three, but his strategy was so off-putting that it swung the vote to a player whose only positive attribute was opposing him (other than that, why would anyone vote for Sandra? She did nothing in the entire game other than find and play a single immunity idol near the end).

Which is a completely legitimate way of playing the game. yes, a lot of people don't like it, but vs. being like Russell, it was a lot more appealing.

there are a number of ways to win this game, and I really have to respect all of the winners. Russell does not, and that will always be his downfall.

You can be dominat, and not a jerk- and probably win the game. But when take the "easy way" - the way Rupert described Russell's play- well, it's pretty obvious that being *THAT* deceptive and lying is not looked upon that well.

I thought it was great how TJ told Russell to lie in the bed he made, just like he did when doing that dumb play with the idol. Russ seemed to almost break after a few of the comments- he may have realized he lost then, and was already mad about it.

The worst thing- Russell has no idea why he lost. Twice. Not a clue. Well, or at least he just claims not to care at all. IMHO, the ONLY reason he made it that far was that nobody saw his season, and his style of play. They were *close* to doing it quick, but nobody put it all together early enough.

[Chickens@NU]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Proof of Russell's dominant play: not only did he make the final three, but his strategy was so off-putting that it swung the vote to a player whose only positive attribute was opposing him (other than that, why would anyone vote for Sandra? She did nothing in the entire game other than find and play a single immunity idol near the end).

She's done that twice now.... not win a thing until the final vote. I think Russell won the vote because of his play. Russell didn't take into account how much personal feelings are taken into account in the jury's vote. Russell thought that since they were "all stars" that they would vote based on game play and not personal feelings. He's played twice now and been burned twice by the same reason. They didn't vote based on play, they voted based on how much of an arsehole he is. (although, if based on gameplay, this one could have gone to either Parv or Russell and I'm leaning towards Parv on the greater number of challenges she won.) That said, Russell can never play this game again because he will be voted off quickly.

[MW4Bucky&SNC]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

I'll preface this by saying I didn't watch the last 40 or 45 minutes of the reunion show yet because I was watching it on DVR and it was late.

I know Russell thinks he's the greatest player ever and he is very good at being decisive and bullying people into what he wants along the way. People can get too sensitive when they get some votes since it's what Survivor is all about, there will always be deception, and any conversations in Survivor are buyer beware. However, I just think he takes it too far in swearing on the life of his kids and in the end hiding behind "I was just playing the game" like he was joking or something. People seem to fear him when he can still do something to them because they know he's always scheming, but obviously they don't respect him once they are out.

I know he thinks he played everyone along the way and was control of the game, but I think it might have been the opposite this season. Parvati played him the entire way and Sandra played it brilliantly. Parvati knew she might end up going along with some things she didn't like along the way, but she also knew she could beat Russell in a jury vote because he would look like he made all of the calls because of his reactionary and aggressive nature. If Sandra made it to the end with 2 heros or 2 villans she was in good shape no matter what. If it was with 2 heros, she would have had a bunch of villans on the jury who would have blamed the heros for their demise and they wouldn't have been too upset with Sandra because she was always behind in numbers once Rob left. When she went with 2 villans like she did, she'd long planted the seed that Russell was the evil mastermind behind knocking off the heroes one by one and many of them were going to vote for her. She was brilliant playing up that angle.

Just once I want to see someone punch somebody or at the very least need to have their language bleeped out as they get up to have their torch extinguished. I'm sure part of the contract to go on the show has heavy penalties for that otherwise I'm convinced we would have seen it already. The burning of the hat was hilarious.

[Bakunin]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Perhaps her tie to Russel was her undoing.

Proof of Russell's dominant play: not only did he make the final three, but his strategy was so off-putting that it swung the vote to a player whose only positive attribute was opposing him (other than that, why would anyone vote for Sandra? She did nothing in the entire game other than find and play a single immunity idol near the end).

[alfablue]

Re: Survivor: Heroes vs. Villians

Yes he did. And then he lost the $1 million by a 7-2 vote margin.

When you are right, you are right. Good call- I was almost convinced that the Heros would see Russell as a good player vs. an A hole.

Russell may not get a single vote given the composition of the jury.

Sandra's biggest asset is the fact she tried to get the heroes to vote out Russell and they didn't listen to her. Other than that, she's been a non-factor in this game.

... and Sandra wins. Trying to get the heroes to vote out Russell multiple times must have counted for a lot.

I thought Russell would get Coach's vote, but hearing Rupert's comments at the last council really changed my mind- I almost thought he was bluffing, but it was pretty clear by all of their comments that Russell was not well liked by anyone. And Rupert's comments at the reunion show told even more (more on that later)

Sandra vs. Parv- Sandra's open goal was to get rid of Russell vs. Parv working with him. Got the Heros and some of her friends that way.

JT wins the vote for dumbest move in 20 seasons.

I think going home with two immunity idols in your pocket is a bit dumber.

Actually, while the stakes were a lot less, Eric's giving away his immunity to get voted off in that exact tribal council was more epic. Hearing JT's explanation was interesting, but I didn't buy it- the one thing that the villans did learn was to make sure you take out ALL of the opposing team- they didn't turn on themselves too badly.

Was a little disappointed to see Russel win the fan favorite...just cuz he definitely doesn't need the money. Looking forward to next season. I wish they would do a season in the arctic or something though.

So were we. But I think that was looking at his game play, and not thinking of Rupert's comments, which I thought were pretty darned strong.

If the only goal of Survivor was to make the final tribal than yes Russell should be considered one of the best ever because he has never been voted out even though he plays such a "In your face game" that everyone can see unlike Sandra or the Girl that beat him last season. But he can't seem to get the fact that to win you need to win the votes of the jury WHILE your are making the final vote.

I loved how he wanted this some kind of American Idol or Dancing with the Stars thing where the audience gets a vote. That's NOT the game, you moron. BTW, Sandra > Russell, since she's also 2 for 2, but instead of one second and one distant 3rd, she won twice. And I also give a lot of credit for Parvarti's two finals, since they were both in All Star Editions of Survivor.

If it were me I'd have voted for Russell given how much of the game he controlled, even if he didn't control it as much as he thought. People that felt betrayed by him have only themselves to blame.

I think Rupert said it best that Russell played the easy version of the game, convince and lie to their faces, and I really think all of these all starts took that into account more than the vote last season. I didn't really think of that until he said it at the reunion show, and do think he's quite right. It's a whole lot easier to get to the final by lying and deception than it is to play a straight up game- however irritating one is.

Look at Sandra- she's as smooth as 40 grit sand paper (except to her close allies), BOTH TIMES, and has won twice. She may be irritating, and manipulating (remember when she dumped the fish in a hidden but close area?), but when asked to her face, she didn't lie, either. Russell asked if she was for or against her- she flat out said- "I'm against you". I think Russell thought she was joking. Her biggest problem (and probably the thing that ultimately made her win) was that she could not convice the heros that Russell was WAY worse than they thought.

OTOH, instead of a few key stabs in the back where one or two (or even 3) votes were sacrificed to stay in the final, Russell did it to everyone- make an alliance- and end it without real regard. You can't pretend to be such a "player" and not live with the repercussions of your play. JT even told him that.

I was quite happy to see Russell so mad at the jury, and you could tell at the final count he knew he lost. Even better that he lost to Sandra who he held in such contempt for the entire show. And IF he's ever invited back to play this again, I don't suspect he'll last past the first tribal council, since EVERYONE know's his game. They'll not give him a chance to change, much like what happened do Cirie.