Gaza 2023: The Next Episode

[dxmnkd316]

Every single one of them. Every demand a protestor wants falls right in the hands of Hamas (such as divestment of Israel and a cease fire). Not to mention putting the blame on Israel and their government so everyone forgets that Hamas killed 1,200 civilians in one day, took hundreds of civilian hostages which is a clear war crime, burned children alive and gang raped women in the most violent means. Notice how no one talks about that anymore? Instead all they talk about are the protestors and how wrong Israel is. The protestors are too damn stupid to realize they've been duped. Hamas won the propaganda war, and the protestors were a huge part of that win.

Wat?

[dxmnkd316]

I don't mean this as en endorsement of the protests, but I don't buy his reasoning, at least as far as the US is concerned.

Places like Congo or Rwanda or Sudan or to a lesser extent Syria don't generate page 1 coverage while their deaths were occurring, and so are not going to generate as strong of a reaction. And there was very little or no US direct involvement there, so there was little for protects to affect. At least with US funding for Israel in the current conflict, there's something they could point to that they may be able to have a political effect on; not saying they should get their way, and not saying they are going about the best course of action to get their way, but there's at least a there there.

Of course Afghanistan and Iraq go directly against that point, since the US was very very much directly involved there. With that, I would say the fact it was the US attacked (in the case of Afghanistan) or directly threatened (as was alleged in the case of Iraq) are going to warrant different reactions to the collateral civilian deaths that US involvement brought; yes that same attack occurred to Israel, but the undercurrent of reaction is going to be vastly different throughout society when it was us attacked, rather than even a close ally attacked. Selfish, yes, but it is what it is. And I would also say that the US was soooo involved there it made protesting moot from the start. It's one thing when you're trying to change one funding line on a few bills; it's another thing when you're trying to stop the entire machine of the US military; once the latter gets going some campus protests aren't going to do squat.

Am I the only one who remembers the protests around the world when we attacked Iraq?

(sincerely. I could have sworn there were hundreds of thousands who marched in the streets, maybe millions during the run up to and the initial phases.)

[mookie1995]

Am I the only one who remembers the protests around the world when we attacked Iraq?

(sincerely. I could have sworn there were hundreds of thousands who marched in the streets, maybe millions during the run up to and the initial phases.)

in support OF the bombing and invasion??

[Slap Shot]

Wat?

You put it more politely than I would have.

[Russell Jaslow]

Maybe Bibi should've focused more on rescuing the hostages and less on eradicating Hamas, then.

He was given a golden opportunity to save himself and blew it in spectacular fashion. If he lost the propaganda war that's on him.

If the Israeli government was the most sympathitic, peace loving, liberal government in the world, Hamas would still have attacked Israeli civilians, Israel's reaction would still have been essentially the same, and the world would still have blamed Israel. Blaming Bibi and Likud, though hard to argue against, is merely a diversionary tactic to bring out people's inner antisemitism. (And don't tell me that if that Israeli government existed, there would have been a two-state solution by now. Hamas would not allow it.)

Hamas only intent to exist is to wipe out Israel. It doesn't matter what Israel does. And Hamas knew what the world's reaction would be. And the world fed out of Hamas' hand. The world fell for a great con job.

[Russell Jaslow]

I don't mean this as en endorsement of the protests, but I don't buy his reasoning, at least as far as the US is concerned.

Places like Congo or Rwanda or Sudan or to a lesser extent Syria don't generate page 1 coverage while their deaths were occurring, and so are not going to generate as strong of a reaction. And there was very little or no US direct involvement there, so there was little for protects to affect. At least with US funding for Israel in the current conflict, there's something they could point to that they may be able to have a political effect on; not saying they should get their way, and not saying they are going about the best course of action to get their way, but there's at least a there there.

Point taken. But there are many other examples "closer" to home. Take China. Why aren't protestors insisting U.S. companies divest from China when the Chinese are sending Uyghurs to death camps as we speak?

Why didn't protestors try to stop the U.S. weapons sales to Saudi Arabia who were using those weapons to bomb the crap out of Yemen for years?

Why weren't women rights groups protesting when Baku Faso kidnapped scores of women? (In fact, there is not one recorded statement from any women's group concerning the gang rapes by Hamas against Jewish civilians. Hmm.....)

Because they all don't involve Jews. Once Jews are involved, the closet antisemites come out, feeling protected by the general attitude of the world, to protest and try to eliminate a Jewish state.

[Russell Jaslow]

Am I the only one who remembers the protests around the world when we attacked Iraq?

(sincerely. I could have sworn there were hundreds of thousands who marched in the streets, maybe millions during the run up to and the initial phases.)

I remember. But here in the U.S., there were not campuses completely being occupied. (I remember someone saying these protests were tame compared to the 60s. I said, insitute the draft, and the protests will go nuts.)

They were still nothing compared to what is going on now.

[Russell Jaslow]

Wat?

Prove me wrong.

Even Hamas thanked the U.S. college protestors for supporting their cause. Think about that. Their cause is not to create a Palestinian state. Their cause is not to help their fellow Palestinians (using them as human shields is living proof of that). Their cause is to wipe out the State of Israel. And they just thanked the protesters for helping their cause. They are all conned proxy soldiers of Hamas.

Again, prove me wrong.

[dxmnkd316]

Prove me wrong.

Even Hamas thanked the U.S. college protestors for supporting their cause. Think about that. Their cause is not to create a Palestinian state. Their cause is not to help their fellow Palestinians (using them as human shields is living proof of that). Their cause is to wipe out the State of Israel. And they just thanked the protesters for helping their cause. They are all conned proxy soldiers of Hamas.

Again, prove me wrong.

I'm not going to reason you out of an idea that you didn't reason yourself into.

[dxmnkd316]

Point taken. But there are many other examples "closer" to home. Take China. Why aren't protestors insisting U.S. companies divest from China when the Chinese are sending Uyghurs to death camps as we speak?

Why didn't protestors try to stop the U.S. weapons sales to Saudi Arabia who were using those weapons to bomb the crap out of Yemen for years?

Why weren't women rights groups protesting when Baku Faso kidnapped scores of women? (In fact, there is not one recorded statement from any women's group concerning the gang rapes by Hamas against Jewish civilians. Hmm.....)

Because they all don't involve Jews. Once Jews are involved, the closet antisemites come out, feeling protected by the general attitude of the world, to protest and try to eliminate a Jewish state.

More likely it's because those are places the US doesn't have huge national interest in.

[Russell Jaslow]

More likely it's because those are places the US doesn't have huge national interest in.

I don't buy it, but maybe. (BTW, our national interests, especially by corporate America, in China is HUGE.)

Then answer this question for me -- why immediately after October 7, protests, including in this country, against Israel occur ... before Israel even responded?

[Russell Jaslow]

I'm not going to reason you out of an idea that you didn't reason yourself into.

It's perfectly reasoned. Hamas knew the world would be against Israel, not Hamas. And they were right. And they are thanking those protesters. Ergo, those protestors are now proxy soldiers for Hamas.

[dxmnkd316]

I don't buy it, but maybe. (BTW, our national interests, especially by corporate America, in China is HUGE.)

Then answer this question for me -- why immediately after October 7, protests, including in this country, against Israel occur ... before Israel even responded?

I am completely unaware of any anti Israel protests that occurred at scale before Israel responded.

[dxmnkd316]

It's perfectly reasoned. Hamas knew the world would be against Israel, not Hamas. And they were right. And they are thanking those protesters. Ergo, those protestors are now proxy soldiers for Hamas.

The chasm in the logics steps here is enough to make the Grand Canyon blush.

[Russell Jaslow]

I am completely unaware of any anti Israel protests that occurred at scale before Israel responded.

There absolutely was. Pay attention.