Gaza 2023: The Next Episode

[ScoobyDoo]

There seem to be two tacts in these protests, by school administration and police:

1. Work with the protesters and attempt to find some common ground. Maybe you can achieve something together, maybe you can't, but at least come at them on the level.
2. OMG CALL THE POLICE!!!1!!11!


One of those tacts has had a pretty smooth run of it, so far. And the other... less so. Can we all guess which tact leads to which outcome?

Yes, they need to work with them. However, there are rules to peaceful protests and that rule was broken at UCLA. What seems to work in that context is if the students are warned ahead of time that if they cross any of the lines they will be expelled immediately. Where that rule has been put down things have not gotten out of hand.

[burd]

It is difficult to fully understand the campus protests and violence in the late 60s outside of the context of the times, particularly the 5-8 years leading up to them. Cities burned in the race riots of the mid 60s. Bobby Kennedy and MLK were both assassinated in '68. The war was deeply unpopular by '68, and the marches and protests were often angry scenes. Right or wrong, young people faulted the establishment (prior generation) for the Vietnam War, suppressive policies on racial and gender rights, widespread pollution of the country's lakes and waterways, etc. Distrust was deep--on both sides. Campus occupations were not only in NYC and Berkely. Students occupied the building used by Dow Chemical to interview students at UW Madison, and in 1970, four former and current students bombed a building used for research with military implications, resulting in near total destruction of the building, the death of one researcher and a number of nonfatal injuries. It was a violent time, and campus occupations and protests reflected that. I do not recall (I'm 71) students being more or less responsible in the way they dealt with administrative responses. I can tell you that a very large percentage of the "younger" generation did not trust establishment authority of any kind. For many, the Kent State murders were a f ck you moment.

[Swansong]

I'll add that some of the demands I've seen regarding divestment are ridiculous. Apple? Microsoft? Really, kids? Come on.


It's also incredibly typical of our country that the discussion is no longer "can we stop the IDF from murdering even more Gazans", but instead is "OMG look at these violent college kids!!!"

[Jimjamesak]

I'll add that some of the demands I've seen regarding divestment are ridiculous. Apple? Microsoft? Really, kids? Come on.


It's also incredibly typical of our country that the discussion is no longer "can we stop the IDF from murdering even more Gazans", but instead is "OMG look at these violent college kids!!!"

Because these college kids are giving the corporate controlled media exactly what they want.

That’s all these protesters are really accomplishing. They’re creating the exact kind of chaos that fuels the fascist agenda. Dump, Bibi, and Putin are absolutely laughing about this right now.

And sadly, most of the young people are happy with it too. Dump being elected fuels their accelerationist fantasies.

[Kepler]

There is always a convenient reason not to do the right thing.

[Kepler]

Kep is close to my age and invariably will have a different perspective.

Not entirely different TBH. Just a difference in emphasis. I remember the agitprop of the FBI and law enforcement working hand in hand with rightwing nuts and rich as-sholes to slander protesters. If you are defending wrong by any reasonable definition, you need some other distraction or factor. You can't fight on the merits in a fair democratic marketplace of ideas. So, you cheat: push your biased narrative on corporate-owned media that has no interest in change; emphasize racist, xenophobic, and radical Christian derp to turn the majority's brains off. Or you just pay a guy to throw a bomb while dressed in the protesters' clothing cuz hey the victim dies in a good cause and will get pie in the sky when they die.

Think Putin and now imagine it in a Brooks Brothers suit.

It's how the game has always been played, and the folks with the money and power have an enormous homefield advantage.

[Russell Jaslow]

Jews who "fight back."

There are *******s within both protestor groups. But thanks for totally missing the point.

Anyone happen to remember October 7? Didn't think so. That's a key part of my point.

But let those pro Palestinian Americans continue to play patsy proxy Hamas soldiers. They must be so proud of themselves to be roped in by a terrorist organization out to eliminate an entire ethnic group.

[WisconsinWildcard]

It is difficult to fully understand the campus protests and violence in the late 60s outside of the context of the times, particularly the 5-8 years leading up to them. Cities burned in the race riots of the mid 60s. Bobby Kennedy and MLK were both assassinated in '68. The war was deeply unpopular by '68, and the marches and protests were often angry scenes. Right or wrong, young people faulted the establishment (prior generation) for the Vietnam War, suppressive policies on racial and gender rights, widespread pollution of the country's lakes and waterways, etc. Distrust was deep--on both sides. Campus occupations were not only in NYC and Berkely. Students occupied the building used by Dow Chemical to interview students at UW Madison, and in 1970, four former and current students bombed a building used for research with military implications, resulting in near total destruction of the building, the death of one researcher and a number of nonfatal injuries. It was a violent time, and campus occupations and protests reflected that. I do not recall (I'm 71) students being more or less responsible in the way they dealt with administrative responses. I can tell you that a very large percentage of the "younger" generation did not trust establishment authority of any kind. For many, the Kent State murders were a f ck you moment.

As an undergrad, I had a job coordinating visiting lectures. When I met Dr. Merzenich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Merzenich he told me he lost all of the progress of his post-doc animal work as all of the rats he was studying went deaf with the explosion/bombing.

[Jimjamesak]

There is always a convenient reason not to do the right thing.

Help one terrorist org eradicate another, slightly different terrorist org. Sure.

[Russell Jaslow]

https://twitter.com/naftalibennett/s...88008187281537

[Slap Shot]

There are *******s within both protestor groups. But thanks for totally missing the point.

Anyone happen to remember October 7? Didn't think so. That's a key part of my point.

But let those pro Palestinian Americans continue to play patsy proxy Hamas soldiers. They must be so proud of themselves to be roped in by a terrorist organization out to eliminate an entire ethnic group.

What % of actual protesters are doing so on behalf of Hamas?

[Kepler]

Help one terrorist org eradicate another, slightly different terrorist org. Sure.

How did this get to be about Likud?

[Russell Jaslow]

What % of actual protesters are doing so on behalf of Hamas?

Every single one of them. Every demand a protestor wants falls right in the hands of Hamas (such as divestment of Israel and a cease fire). Not to mention putting the blame on Israel and their government so everyone forgets that Hamas killed 1,200 civilians in one day, took hundreds of civilian hostages which is a clear war crime, burned children alive and gang raped women in the most violent means. Notice how no one talks about that anymore? Instead all they talk about are the protestors and how wrong Israel is. The protestors are too damn stupid to realize they've been duped. Hamas won the propaganda war, and the protestors were a huge part of that win.

[unofan]

Every single one of them. Every demand a protestor wants falls right in the hands of Hamas (such as divestment of Israel and a cease fire). Not to mention putting the blame on Israel and their government so everyone forgets that Hamas killed 1,200 civilians in one day, took hundreds of civilian hostages which is a clear war crime, burned children alive and gang raped women in the most violent means. Notice how no one talks about that anymore? Instead all they talk about are the protestors and how wrong Israel is. The protestors are too damn stupid to realize they've been duped. Hamas won the propaganda war, and the protestors were a huge part of that win.

Maybe Bibi should've focused more on rescuing the hostages and less on eradicating Hamas, then.

He was given a golden opportunity to save himself and blew it in spectacular fashion. If he lost the propaganda war that's on him.

[French Rage]

https://twitter.com/naftalibennett/s...88008187281537

I don't mean this as en endorsement of the protests, but I don't buy his reasoning, at least as far as the US is concerned.

Places like Congo or Rwanda or Sudan or to a lesser extent Syria don't generate page 1 coverage while their deaths were occurring, and so are not going to generate as strong of a reaction. And there was very little or no US direct involvement there, so there was little for protects to affect. At least with US funding for Israel in the current conflict, there's something they could point to that they may be able to have a political effect on; not saying they should get their way, and not saying they are going about the best course of action to get their way, but there's at least a there there.

Of course Afghanistan and Iraq go directly against that point, since the US was very very much directly involved there. With that, I would say the fact it was the US attacked (in the case of Afghanistan) or directly threatened (as was alleged in the case of Iraq) are going to warrant different reactions to the collateral civilian deaths that US involvement brought; yes that same attack occurred to Israel, but the undercurrent of reaction is going to be vastly different throughout society when it was us attacked, rather than even a close ally attacked. Selfish, yes, but it is what it is. And I would also say that the US was soooo involved there it made protesting moot from the start. It's one thing when you're trying to change one funding line on a few bills; it's another thing when you're trying to stop the entire machine of the US military; once the latter gets going some campus protests aren't going to do squat.