NCAA Hockey - 2023/24 **Insert Witty Tagline**

[Kepler]

Adam is a smart man. While I don't find his arguments convincing, I admire he is publicly advocating a position he believes in. He isn't in any way foolish or superficial, he's giving it all he's got because he believes strongly in the merits of his case and in the destructive effect campus sites could have. I recommend reading his articles about it on CHN.

He's wrong, but in a forthright and honorable way, and that's how all sides of a debate should proceed.

I agree that Carle utterly destroyed his arguments -- it is a masterclass in debate -- but Adam set up the interview, knowing it would be difficult to debate somebody who is a fervent advocate and has the cred of a coach. And he'd do it again. That's awesome. I'm hoping we move to campus sites because they are so clearly superior, but at least we have a worthy opponent.

It was telling that at the end of the interview Adam says "it feels like we are going backwards" and "we were supposed to be growing as a sport" and "admitting defeat." I think, unconsciously, the media advocates (not Adam so much, as like I said he has a genuine understanding and opinion) of things like this, like uncontrolled expansion or blind cloning NHL rules, are attaching the "bigness" of the event to the importance of being media for that event. ESPN does this pathologically: bigger is better, more professional is better, more slick is better, more commercialized is better, more revenue is better. That feels like BIRGing to me. Granted, I have a quick gag reflex about that, but I do think it is a real psychological effect.

[SJHovey]

Adam is a smart man. While I don't find his arguments convincing, I admire he is publicly advocating a position he believes in. He isn't in any way foolish or superficial, he's giving it all he's got because he believes strongly in the merits of his case and in the destructive effect campus sites could have. I recommend reading his articles about it on CHN.

He's wrong, but in a forthright and honorable way, and that's how all sides of a debate should proceed.

Yeah, I like listening to his podcast, and he has certainly been very consistent in his position. He also expresses his arguments very clearly. And I agree, someone in the college hockey media should be playing the devils advocate on issues like this.

Maybe that's why I was so taken aback by last night's interview. It's sort of like a boxing match where you think it's going to be a good fight, then you are surprised by how it played out.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I need to listen to that interview. I also like wodon but I think the current system is no bueno and wasn’t at all convinced by his heartfelt arguments

[Kepler]

Yeah, I like listening to his podcast, and he has certainly been very consistent in his position. He also expresses his arguments very clearly. And I agree, someone in the college hockey media should be playing the devils advocate on issues like this.

Maybe that's why I was so taken aback by last night's interview. It's sort of like a boxing match where you think it's going to be a good fight, then you are surprised by how it played out.

Yup. It was a bloodbath. But it's not because Adam is not a good debater. He was a great jockey on a tired, old, lame horse. He has his opinion but he is mistaking it for something objectively real. And when a debate is legitimate and both sides play fair with no tricks then the truth will out, and that's what happened.

In a situation like that, we all win and we have both Carle and Adam to thank, because they were testing alternate hypotheses. Nobody loses when truth wins.

I am going to be so butthurt when we are a 9 playing at Englestad.

[Spartanforlife4]

I hate to point out just two words to derail an argument, but in the piece he wrote last month in favor of neutral sites he threw women’s basketball in as a pro towards his position. That’s a sport that not only returned to campus sites for the first two rounds, but consolidated the regionals in recent years to two sites because four was spreading too thin. And that’s while the sport has been seeing an increase in popularity and dollars spent.

We’re at the point where the NCAA isn’t even following its own guidelines. 5k is supposed to be the minimum yet the Midwest regional is being hosted at an arena that only seats 2,500, and is a “campus site” at that since it’s Lindenwood’s home rink. I guess it will (hopefully) be packed since it’s such a small venue, but is this really the better option over playing at Munn, or the Kohl Center or Engelstad?

[SJHovey]

Yup. It was a bloodbath. But it's not because Adam is not a good debater. He was a great jockey on a tired, old, lame horse. He has his opinion but he is mistaking it for something objectively real. And when a debate is legitimate and both sides play fair with no tricks then the truth will out, and that's what happened.

In a situation like that, we all win and we have both Carle and Adam to thank, because they were testing alternate hypotheses. Nobody loses when truth wins.

I am going to be so butthurt when we are a 9 playing at Englestad.

I definitely plan to catch the GPL podcast interview with Wodon later this month. Eric Vegoe is smart, and has the ability to clearly express his thoughts in very few words. On the other hand, Wodon has now been bloodied, and he is smart enough to be able to use the experience with Carle to maybe re-frame his arguments, so it should be an interesting discussion.

That, plus I'm wondering if Wodon and Vegoe haven't maybe traded a couple of twitter barbs on the subject before.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I mean obviously, if you're a fan of a big-spending "hockey factory" you want to return to campus sites, since your school will be a host more often than not and the building will be a sellout. Having attended a couple of the Midwest regionals in recent years and seen how pathetically thin the crowds were, even though my school is a relative member of the poorhouse these days, I'm inclined to agree that something has to change.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I just can’t imagine wanting to go play in a dead arena in a location no one cares about.

are there truly a lot of small school coaches who still want neutral sites?

[LynahFan]

I just can’t imagine wanting to go play in a dead arena in a location no one cares about.

are there truly a lot of small school coaches who still want neutral sites?

I don’t know the answer, but I can easily imagine that it might be “yes.” Winning an NCAA playoff game is huge for coaches, in terms of their careers, bonuses, salaries, recruiting, alumni donations, etc. Why would they not want to deny their opponents the very real home rink advantages? Whether it’s the crowd support, familiarity with the bounces, or just sleeping in their own beds, home teams win more - so much so that the NCAA built home and away factors into the RPI.

Besides, what coach would agree that his kids would have more fun losing in a raucous, loud environment than winning in a morgue?

The only coaches who should be in favor of regional sites are the handful who have a reasonable expectation of finishing in the top 8 more often than not.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Then I must have missed where sacred heart is now a powerhouse. Along with asu. Both their coaches this week said they absolutely prefer campus hosting and playing against a hostile crowd. I forgot to mention them in first post.

think it’s beginning to change.

No snark intended for you, lynah.

[LynahFan]

Then I must have missed where sacred heart is now a powerhouse. Along with asu. Both their coaches this week said they absolutely prefer campus hosting and playing against a hostile crowd. I forgot to mention them in first post.

think it’s beginning to change.

I said “should,” but I’ll clarify:

The only coaches who *have an incentive* to be in favor of campus sites are those who have a reasonable expectation of finishing in the top 8 more often than not.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I said “should,” but I’ll clarify:

The only coaches who *have an incentive* to be in favor of campus sites are those who have a reasonable expectation of finishing in the top 8 more often than not.

I did add edit below that I meant no snark to you

I think they can have incentives even as the lowest seed. A bigger crowd and environment can help recruiting.

playing in front of 1500 people in Allentown probably isn’t creating new fans or players

[Bronco]

Didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm surprised that most coaches are fine and will have zero complaints when they are the 1 seed and head to the 4th seed's home arena. Because that's what you are asking for. I remember the outrage Michigan got when they hosted as a lower seed, and I'm sure many examples of that are why it was changed in the first place. Just shows that everything old is new again.

[state of hockey]

Didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm surprised that most coaches are fine and will have zero complaints when they are the 1 seed and head to the 4th seed's home arena. Because that's what you are asking for. I remember the outrage Michigan got when they hosted as a lower seed, and I'm sure many examples of that are why it was changed in the first place. Just shows that everything old is new again.

I don’t think that’s the proposal. It is to get rid of regionals period. 9-16 travel to 1-8.

Also yes, Veegs and Adam have duked it out on Twitter about this before. I think this year’s regional in a 2500 seat arena outside St Louis is a straw that is starting to break the camel’s back.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Didn't listen to the podcast, but I'm surprised that most coaches are fine and will have zero complaints when they are the 1 seed and head to the 4th seed's home arena. Because that's what you are asking for. I remember the outrage Michigan got when they hosted as a lower seed, and I'm sure many examples of that are why it was changed in the first place. Just shows that everything old is new again.

That was brought up on one of the podcasts- believe they even said Ron mason kicked Michigan out of their locker room at yost