The States: Maybe A National Divorce Is A Good Idea After All

[Jimjamesak]

Those union parties back the Dems, but that doesn't mean the union members all vote in lockstep. I've known plenty of operators and laborers with III%, Trump, Family of guns stickers on their trucks. They're the 3G voters (God, Gays, Guns) who don't care about anyone other than themselves and their immediate family they never see because they're working 80hr weeks in the summer and drunk or sleeping the rest of the time.

Age is a big differentiating factor in my experience. Older ones tend to be as DGF described, grumpy, bitter guys that care only about themselves. Younger ones tend to be the ones so left they would string up Kepler in a noose to send a message to the others.

[Handyman]

Ok first, its like you didn't actually read what I said. I said membership is more divided than leadership...its not as close as you think it is though on a macro level. Micro sure.

Second I know plenty of those people too and they are hardly Trumpers. A lot of them live in my neighborhood and the surrounding areas and they aren't voting Red. If they were, Tim Walz wouldn't be Governor, this area wouldn't elect Dem Reps both locally and nationally and Minnesota would be a lot closer to Red than it ever actually is. I think some of you are letting the loudest and most vocal ones cloud your views.

Look I get that it is hard to oust leadership in some of these unions but if membership was as staunchly Red as you guys seem to think it was, they would have ousted leadership the second they endorsed Biden in 2020. That was when MAGA/III%/Proud Boys had the most strength and momentum. They didn't, and they didn't even really vocalize their disgust for it. Its not like there would really be any repercussions (and we know they have no problem phucking around...even after they find out!) so why wouldn't they do something about it? Because in truth they are a vocal minority especially in cities and suburbs. (the closer you get to cow country the more that ratio changes) Hell when Education Minnesota endorsed Hillary over Bernie in '16 there was almost a civil war over it and membership threatened to oust leadership and leave the union altogether (I mean we have other unions like AFT) and that is whiny academics. If Trumpers were even close to half the membership in the trades unions there would have been blood. These people don't feign loyalty...they spit on their union brotherhood when they dare challenge the God King. (ask Michael Fanone)

Also remember, I teach at a school that is partially a trade school that feeds many of these unions...

The reason most unions endorse Dems is because the majority of membership is centrist or center left. As long as they have jobs and a place to live they tend to not be very political and just do what protects their interests. There were plenty of articles about this stuff in the run up and aftermath of 2020. Lots of examples (like Suburban Detroit) where unions shifted more Red in the Reagan Era because Dems became too academic and the GOP acted like the Party of the People. (which we all know was BS) Clinton won some of it back, then Dubya used war rhetoric and fear to steal it back again, then Obama flipped it again in the backlash following Dubya, then everyone revolted on Hillary and then they really revolted on Trump and his Gestapo. It was a very interesting phenomenon. We will never know for sure, but I bet if you could poll every member of every union (and they were 100% honest) the percentage of RWNJ members is probably about the same as it is in America in general. That percentage is too high mind you, but there is way more of us than there are in them.

[Handyman]

Age is a big differentiating factor in my experience. Older ones tend to be as DGF described, grumpy, bitter guys that care only about themselves. Younger ones tend to be the ones so left they would string up Kepler in a noose to send a message to the others.

Yup.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Age is a big differentiating factor in my experience. Older ones tend to be as DGF described, grumpy, bitter guys that care only about themselves. Younger ones tend to be the ones so left they would string up Kepler in a noose to send a message to the others.

Yup.

you have plenty like my dad too, who recognized what the union got him and voted dem even if he wasn’t enthusiastic.

[geezer]

From the Detroit News today (you might need a subscription), some incredible reporting on a meeting of the state Republican committee:

”Eventually, Mark DeYoung, chairman of the Clare County Republican Party, heard the wiggling and walked over to the door, where he saw someone flip him off through a small window.

DeYoung opened the door.

"He kicked me in my balls as soon as I opened the door,” DeYoung said.

The scuffle intensified with Chapman running at DeYoung and slamming him into a chair, DeYoung said. DeYoung provided his account in a phone interview from an emergency room in Clare. DeYoung said he had suffered a broken rib.

Chapman alleged that DeYoung had said, "I’ll kick your a--" and swung at him. DeYoung denied those claims.

At one point, Chapman removed his own glasses, Chapman said.

“When you see me taking my glasses off, I’m ready to rock," Chapman said.

Chapman said he took DeYoung by the legs and knocked him over.

Chapman said multiple police officers were at the hotel after the incident. And DeYoung said he had spoken with the local sheriff and intended to press charges against Chapman.

"We’re so divided," DeYoung said from the hospital. “I just wish we could come together.””

—These guys each had one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard from a party meeting. Amazing work gents. (On background, the guys in the room are MAGA Trumpers. The guys who wanted meeting access are normal Republican grifters and perverts. I think, I might have them switched- but they really don’t get along)

[MissThundercat]

From the Detroit News today (you might need a subscription), some incredible reporting on a meeting of the state Republican committee:

”Eventually, Mark DeYoung, chairman of the Clare County Republican Party, heard the wiggling and walked over to the door, where he saw someone flip him off through a small window.

DeYoung opened the door.

"He kicked me in my balls as soon as I opened the door,” DeYoung said.

The scuffle intensified with Chapman running at DeYoung and slamming him into a chair, DeYoung said. DeYoung provided his account in a phone interview from an emergency room in Clare. DeYoung said he had suffered a broken rib.

Chapman alleged that DeYoung had said, "I’ll kick your a--" and swung at him. DeYoung denied those claims.

At one point, Chapman removed his own glasses, Chapman said.

“When you see me taking my glasses off, I’m ready to rock," Chapman said.

Chapman said he took DeYoung by the legs and knocked him over.

Chapman said multiple police officers were at the hotel after the incident. And DeYoung said he had spoken with the local sheriff and intended to press charges against Chapman.

"We’re so divided," DeYoung said from the hospital. “I just wish we could come together.””

—These guys each had one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard from a party meeting. Amazing work gents. (On background, the guys in the room are MAGA Trumpers. The guys who wanted meeting access are normal Republican grifters and perverts. I think, I might have them switched- but they really don’t get along)

So... Pennywise would do a better job leading the MI GQP?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The reason most unions endorse Dems is because the majority of membership is centrist or center left. As long as they have jobs and a place to live they tend to not be very political and just do what protects their interests. There were plenty of articles about this stuff in the run up and aftermath of 2020. Lots of examples (like Suburban Detroit) where unions shifted more Red in the Reagan Era because Dems became too academic and the GOP acted like the Party of the People. (which we all know was BS) Clinton won some of it back, then Dubya used war rhetoric and fear to steal it back again, then Obama flipped it again in the backlash following Dubya, then everyone revolted on Hillary and then they really revolted on Trump and his Gestapo. It was a very interesting phenomenon. We will never know for sure, but I bet if you could poll every member of every union (and they were 100% honest) the percentage of RWNJ members is probably about the same as it is in America in general. That percentage is too high mind you, but there is way more of us than there are in them.

They got tired of continually getting less and less as management became more powerful. In part due to the same old Dem pols that have paid lip service to supporting labor, but then repeatedly bowed to GOP pressure and enacted legislation that benefited management and sent the sons of labor off to war. Some of them are likely a bit resentful that other special interest groups are getting attention from Dems while labor has been considered an afterthought, or even a nuisance since about 1970.

[Kepler]

They got tired of continually getting less and less as management became more powerful. In part due to the same old Dem pols that have paid lip service to supporting labor, but then repeatedly bowed to GOP pressure and enacted legislation that benefited management and sent the sons of labor off to war.

That wasn't it at all.

The white working class who were unionized were racists, and the Dems abandoned them by embracing civil rights.

The union members were a bunch of f-ckstains who picked their bigotry over their economic self-interest. They were Archie Bunker. The GOP was happy to grab hold of them as Useful Idiots to push through their plutocratic policies.

The lifeblood of the unions was working stiffs, and working stiffs were racists. Full stop.

[Jimjamesak]

It would probably surprise you that a good portion of unionized workers today are not white.

[Handyman]

They got tired of continually getting less and less as management became more powerful. In part due to the same old Dem pols that have paid lip service to supporting labor, but then repeatedly bowed to GOP pressure and enacted legislation that benefited management and sent the sons of labor off to war. Some of them are likely a bit resentful that other special interest groups are getting attention from Dems while labor has been considered an afterthought, or even a nuisance since about 1970.

All of this is way too on the nose!

I don't see Biden losing the unions and his infrastructure plan and how he worked it needs to be the template for the Dems going forward. AOC already endorsing him is a very good sign of that being the case.

[Handyman]

It would probably surprise you that a good portion of unionized workers today are not white.

Not me... that is why I don't buy that a significant portion are MAGA.

(It helps I have first hand knowledge)

[Kepler]

It would probably surprise you that a good portion of unionized workers today are not white.

Not surprised at all. A good number were non-white in the 40s through 70s, too. And they are still Democrats.

The problem with worker rights in America hasn't been the rich since the 1940s. It's been the white working class, the original Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

Granted the rich laid the groundwork by stressing racial division in order to divide and conquer the working class, white Poors still took to it with great gusto. They deserve the pain they caused themselves; it's just a shame they took their peers of color with them.

There's nothing in America that deporting our poor whites wouldn't improve except the stripper industry and The Smoking Gun.

[psych]

The problem isn’t the rich people who caused everything and control everything? Okay.

[Kepler]

The problem isn’t the rich people who caused everything and control everything? Okay.

They are the ultimate problem, yes. But we are a democracy and if the derps had political self-discipline we could fix it.

They don't, and so far we can't.

There is no reason that the GOP should be able to spend money to create votes. The only reason they can is lofos who are easily manipulated by appealing to their prejudices.

Being poor does not relieve you of the responsibility to use your brain. Stop making excuses for the derps -- they indulge their idiocies and get the policies they deserve. The downside is everybody else does, too.

[psych]

They are the ultimate problem, yes. But we are a democracy and if the derps had political self-discipline we could fix it.

They don't, and so far we can't.

There is no reason that the GOP should be able to spend money to create votes. The only reason they can is lofos who are easily manipulated by appealing to their prejudices.

Being poor does not relieve you of the responsibility to use your brain. Stop making excuses for the derps -- they indulge their idiocies and get the policies they deserve. The downside is everybody else does, too.

Making excuses? Can you provide an example in my post where I did that…