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The States: Maybe A National Divorce Is A Good Idea After All

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  • Handyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Bronco View Post

    So we are saying the guy that pressed the button (yes, oversimplifaction) to change Flint's water supply to a contaminated supply is to blame? Not the people who made the decision in the first place. I am more interested in punishing the decision maker instead of the person that was told to do it.
    Lets put it this way:

    In your scenario if that was the only factor that did it no. In that case they likely had no idea what they were doing and there was no evidence it would turn out that way.

    But...

    That is not a good parallel because this is not some new thing that just started last week. The proper parallel would be that every few months some guy needs to go back to that button and press it again, long after the world knows that pressing that button contaminates the water. In that case...yeah that dude needs to "find out" if you catch my drift. Should they go to prison for life...no. But "I need the job man!" is not enough to mitigate the fact that they are knowingly (or at least it is reasonable to assume they know) doing something that is putting people in danger.

    The people making the decisions should get the harshest penalties and be sued so hard their great grandchildren are broke but the grunts need to be held accountable too. Blow the whistle when you have the chance there are protections for that and compensation even.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronco
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

    if the boss at work said pour this poison into the river, should we charge the person who did it? Should we feel bad for them because they can't quit and do it anyways? No, screw that.

    this isn't something legal but morally dubious. It's a felony.
    So we are saying the guy that pressed the button (yes, oversimplifaction) to change Flint's water supply to a contaminated supply is to blame? Not the people who made the decision in the first place. I am more interested in punishing the decision maker instead of the person that was told to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

    This isn't speeding or some victimless crime. This is human trafficking. Would you be ok if they were just idiots with bills hired to kill someone?

    these are felonies and we can't just ignore that because they've got bills

    edit: as for the bus owners, yeah, start issuing warrants for their arrests too.
    I agree - we should be arresting the drivers. Unfortunate for the first few who take the fall, but the word would spread extremely quickly through the bus driver community to turn down those gigs. No drivers, no buses. Problem solved.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by Bronco View Post
    Fair enough. Don't post snarky comments before coffee.

    I agree with Kepler that the person driving the bus is just a low waged employee that likely doesn't have the occupational mobility to be able to make a decision like this. It is easy to quit a job when you have skills, education, etc than if you're just some easily replaceable dude getting paid close to minimum wage.
    if the boss at work said pour this poison into the river, should we charge the person who did it? Should we feel bad for them because they can't quit and do it anyways? No, screw that.

    this isn't something legal but morally dubious. It's a felony.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    They're just some idiots with bills. If they're actually enthusiastic supporters of trafficking, nail them for that.
    This isn't speeding or some victimless crime. This is human trafficking. Would you be ok if they were just idiots with bills hired to kill someone?

    these are felonies and we can't just ignore that because they've got bills

    edit: as for the bus owners, yeah, start issuing warrants for their arrests too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Bronco View Post

    So you're fine with charging the pilot and cabin crew with crimes for helping transport the lady from Texas to get healthcare?
    Terrible equivalency. As stated she is choosing to leave to get her abortion she is not being trafficked. The migrants either don't know what is happening or are being tricked into doing it. The DOJ would be all up in the azz of the drivers of busses if this was Underaged White Women being transported by bus to be tricked out for the Super Bowl. (which I learned was a bad issue when the SB was here) We wouldn't even be having this discussion half the people here would be calling for the drivers heads on a pike.

    In the beginning I agree you don't charge the drivers because they don't know what is going on its just a job. Now they can't claim ignorance they know the score this has been happening for what 2 years? People like that in scams and crimes get charged all the time...they are always the first ones and they then help take down the big dogs. They are 100% assisting in human trafficking and they can't hide behind the guise of "oh I just drive the bus! How was I supposed to know?!?!?!". What you think it is just a coincidence that your random charter in MissingChromosome, FL has 100 Guatemalans on it that just so happen to be making a pilgrimage to Chicago? What does the driver think they are all just a little tardy for Latino Heritage Month at Soldier Field? Yeah they can phuck all the way off with that one...especially if there are children on any of these busses. They know what they are doing and I would bet money most have zero issue with it. If they do they have ample opportunity on the 32 hour drive to make a call to the DOJ or the Chicago PD or ICE or just run a Google Search for Migrant Rights and call one of them. And what are the chances some of those drivers would or have done multiple routes? Yeah sorry you turn a blind eye to that kind of injustice I have zero sympathy for you.

    edit: posted before I saw your mea culpa. Coffee tends to help ;^)

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronco
    replied
    Fair enough. Don't post snarky comments before coffee.

    I agree with Kepler that the person driving the bus is just a low waged employee that likely doesn't have the occupational mobility to be able to make a decision like this. It is easy to quit a job when you have skills, education, etc than if you're just some easily replaceable dude getting paid close to minimum wage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by Bronco View Post

    So you're fine with charging the pilot and cabin crew with crimes for helping transport the lady from Texas to get healthcare?
    It's the opposite. The woman in search of healthcare is being assisted, the refugees on the buses are being persecuted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slap Shot
    replied
    Originally posted by Bronco View Post

    So you're fine with charging the pilot and cabin crew with crimes for helping transport the lady from Texas to get healthcare?
    Are they transporting her against her will?

    I'm on the fence regarding charging them or not, but that's not an apt comparison

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronco
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

    No, I'm sorry. They're complicit and they don't need to be party to what is kidnapping and trafficking. Charge them.
    So you're fine with charging the pilot and cabin crew with crimes for helping transport the lady from Texas to get healthcare?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

    No, I'm sorry. They're complicit and they don't need to be party to what is kidnapping and trafficking. Charge them.
    They're just some idiots with bills. If they're actually enthusiastic supporters of trafficking, nail them for that.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    Don't charge the drivers, they're just poor saps. Fine the carriers and the criminal demagogues who hire them for reckless endangerment. Leave the workers alone; go for the money behind it. And when bad things happen like illness sue the Nazis into penury.

    Time to apply deterrence to the scum.
    No, I'm sorry. They're complicit and they don't need to be party to what is kidnapping and trafficking. Charge them.

    Leave a comment:


  • rufus
    replied
    Why don't you charge them for something that might be a real deterrent, like human trafficking?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Maybe it's time to start charging the bus companies and drivers with crimes.
    Don't charge the drivers, they're just poor saps. Fine the carriers and the criminal demagogues who hire them for reckless endangerment. Leave the workers alone; go for the money behind it. And when bad things happen like illness sue the Nazis into penury.

    Time to apply deterrence to the scum.
    Last edited by Kepler; 12-14-2023, 08:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Maybe it's time to start charging the bus companies and drivers with crimes.

    Leave a comment:

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