Sanctuary Cities/States - DON'T Come all ye to Bethlehem

[Whalers]

The US does not have an immigration problem and arguing the topic with someone as ignorant of the topic as Whalers has demonstrated is wasting their time.

The mayors of NYC, Washington and Chicago, and the vast majority of CITIZENS in Texas, NM and Ariz would beg to differ. I think you could add in MV to that equation as well as their actions spoke much louder than their words ........ or their "All are Welcome" lawn signs.

SlapShot, I said a few posts ago that I must be ignorant on immigration, AND THEN asked for people on here to show me the light with DETAILED plans. At least to this point, those have failed to materialize. Anyone! Anyone! Buehller? Bueller?

[LynahFan]

I've seen some dumb people on this board, but one who mistakes a bunch of middle aged college hockey fans for congressmen who would author detailed immigration legislation is definitely a new low.

[aparch]

Better check his birth certificate.

Long form or is the short form adequate? ;-)

[rpi82]

LEGAL immigrants come here thru LEGAL means, and a process. How am I the product of chain immigration? I was born here.

Hate to burst your bubble RPI, but the Troy lab chemicals might be clouding your perspective. One of the 50 POC's who were taken off MV within 44 hours "escaped" detention at the superfund center and went to a local bar. The story came out because he ran out of "money". The "money" was actually on THREE Ebt cards that were given to him, AND he also had not 1 but 2 government issued cell phones. Which one should they track? And how is it that you "Track" someone with a device that they can just drop on the street?

You described how your parents arrived here via "chain immigration" or "chain migration" (the terms are used interchangeably) so your presence here is a result of that process. Trump said it was a threat to our economy and our security. Are you a threat to the U.S.?

As for your story, I can't find any source for it, not even Breitbart. Can you point to a reputable source (not that I find Breitbart reputable, but I'd even take that for discussion purposes) that has reported it, including the supposed issuing of Ebt cards.? As far as I know the potential immigrants are not detained, so escaping is not necessary. In fact, if Desantis took detained immigrants and released them on Martha's Vineyard I think that would make him an accomplice to their escape - a clear violation of law.

As for the cell phone tracking, they are told that carrying the phones (which to my understanding have all other functions beyond GPS tracking disabled) is a condition of release. Violating those conditions is not wise if someone wishes to stay. Having a second may well have been the work of one of the aid groups helping the relocated migrants actually have a phone to communicate. If any of the things you claimed even happened, how do you know both phones were government issued?

Lastly, what did you mean by POC? Neither of the two uses I know would speak well of you. If you mean Person of Color I wonder why you made such an assumption or thought it relevant to point out. Many Venezuelans are of European or mixed-European heritage and would be considered White, not POC. Why should color matter to you anyway? If you meant "Piece of C**p" then that speaks poorly of your ability to be empathetic or kind. Even if you don't believe they should be here, one would hope you'd have sympathy for their position. Even the most unempathetic person in the world, Donald Trump, has talked about their citizens suffering under the current regime. Would even he call them a "piece of c**p?"

[ScoobyDoo]

Jared Kushner criticizes Desantis’s flight of migrants to MV: “We have to remember that these are human beings, they’re people, so seeing them being used as political pawns is very troubling to me.”

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...60861064679424

Geeeesh. What a flaming ****ing liberal he is. *****.

[Slap Shot]

The mayors of NYC, Washington and Chicago, and the vast majority of CITIZENS in Texas, NM and Ariz would beg to differ. I think you could add in MV to that equation as well as their actions spoke much louder than their words ........ or their "All are Welcome" lawn signs.

SlapShot, I said a few posts ago that I must be ignorant on immigration, AND THEN asked for people on here to show me the light with DETAILED plans. At least to this point, those have failed to materialize. Anyone! Anyone! Buehller? Bueller?

A plan for what? You're in search of a solution to problem that does not exist as I already explained. Well there is a problem - people like you shrieking there's a problem without 1) logically demonstrating there is in and 2) never once coming up with a solution of your own. Don't ask me to solve for your windmills.

[Whalers]

RPI certainly likes to pack a lot into one post, most of it parsing words/phrases and fantasy.

You described how your parents arrived here via "chain immigration" or "chain migration"

There you go trying to be cute. You are referring to Family Based Migration, a new vote packing method, and just trying to interchange to take away the sting. This is where one person gets in and then gives a call to the rest back home and now "you can't break up families". Nice try, my parents did things the proper way, individually, and then met each other. No families involved.

As for your story, I can't find any source for it

Meet Enrique, from Venezuela (not inglesias). As you so astutely mention, must originally be from Northern Europe, Scotland perhaps?
https://hyannisnews.com/meet-enrique...ts-of-hyannis/

He was treated so nicely on his journey BEFORE he reached the US, and then we flew him to that $h!thole Marthas Vineyard where the abuse REALLY began. Bet you he wishes he had stayed in Mexico for more of the royal treatment.

As for the cell phone tracking, they are told that carrying the phones is a condition of release.

Now that is rich. Every last one of them, law abiding citizens. See we are receiving the best and brightest, they just dont decide to go to Hudson Valley Community College North like you.

For those following along, POC = People of Color. AOC says this all the time to describe her Puerto Rican heritage, so no one on that island has a fair European complexion? Yeah, when someone says Venezuelan in your presence, you immediately gravitate to the 4% of the population with white European heritage. Question - Name the richest African-American??? Give up?

Elon Musk.

[ericredaxe]

There you go trying to be cute. You are referring to Family Based Migration, a new vote packing method, and just trying to interchange to take away the sting. This is where one person gets in and then gives a call to the rest back home and now "you can't break up families". Nice try, my parents did things the proper way, individually, and then met each other. No families involved.

You just said below that

I am the child of LEGAL immigrants who had to be family sponsored to come here

. Whether you like it or not, that is chain migration.

What is Chain Migration? Family reunification? Definition, diversity visa lottery and the Trrump administration - CBS News

"Chain migration" -- officially known as "family reunification" under federal law -- is the process by which green card holders or legal U.S. residents may sponsor a family member for immigration to the United States.

[aparch]

I'm just amazed that Whalers is sitting at a poker table holding a Gregg Jefferies 1988 Fleer trading card and a checklist card for the 1989 Score set, was told by everyone sitting next to him that his cards are no good, but he continues to raise his bets.

[rpi82]

RPI certainly likes to pack a lot into one post, most of it parsing words/phrases and fantasy.



There you go trying to be cute. You are referring to Family Based Migration, a new vote packing method, and just trying to interchange to take away the sting. This is where one person gets in and then gives a call to the rest back home and now "you can't break up families". Nice try, my parents did things the proper way, individually, and then met each other. No families involved.



Meet Enrique, from Venezuela (not inglesias). As you so astutely mention, must originally be from Northern Europe, Scotland perhaps?
https://hyannisnews.com/meet-enrique...ts-of-hyannis/

He was treated so nicely on his journey BEFORE he reached the US, and then we flew him to that $h!thole Marthas Vineyard where the abuse REALLY began. Bet you he wishes he had stayed in Mexico for more of the royal treatment.



Now that is rich. Every last one of them, law abiding citizens. See we are receiving the best and brightest, they just dont decide to go to Hudson Valley Community College North like you.

For those following along, POC = People of Color. AOC says this all the time to describe her Puerto Rican heritage, so no one on that island has a fair European complexion? Yeah, when someone says Venezuelan in your presence, you immediately gravitate to the 4% of the population with white European heritage. Question - Name the richest African-American??? Give up?

Elon Musk.

Your chain migration story keeps changing so I'll let that stand on its own.

Your presumption that the migrants are bad people and the need to call them people of color (even though 40+% of the population of Venezuela is white, not 4%) regardless of whether they are or not also make clear your biases.

Your need to insult my alma mater, a outstanding school that I'm proud to have attended, discloses your insecurities in having a civil exchange and possibly with your own educational background.

I appreciate your providing a source, although that reads more as some local guy's blog than a particularly reputable source. I note that he says nothing about the migrant "escaping", nor that he had Ebt cards. Howie Carr, pretty much the local Boston equivalent of Sean Hannity, quoted the owner as saying he had 3 "government gift cards." What is a "government gift card?" Ebt cards are not gift cards and, I believe, can't legally be accepted for alcohol purchases as reported. It also wouldn't make sense for 3 Ebt cards because they can be loaded with any cash total necessary. My guess, is that he was given 3 gift cards with fixed values by local aid groups in San Antonio, Martha's Vineyard or upon arrival in the Cape. Nothing said the cell phones he was carrying were government issued, but if 1 was given to him solely for tracking purposes it would make sense to have another that he could have brought himself (I'll bet Venezuelan cell phones can take the videos he showed) or gotten from an aid group. Of course, Howie couldn't resist headlining that the bar got "stiffed" even though the amount was a mere $2 and the owner was so unperturbed by that he let the guy stay to closing. Even the police liked him so they couldn't have been too concerned either. In short, even your source doesn't support your ominous implications about this event. It was a non-event so no wonder it wasn't reported by national media on either side of the political spectrum.

[Slap Shot]

Undocumented immigrants are not nearly the boogeyman you want them to be:

The consistency of the comparative rates is notable. Relative to native-born citizens and legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants have the lowest felony arrest rates across all four crime types. For violent, property, and drug offenses, legal immigrants occupy a middle position between undocumented immigrants and US-born citizens. The gaps between native-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are substantial: US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.

Fig. 2 shows the rates for homicide, assault, robbery, sexual assault, burglary, theft, and arson. Without exception, undocumented immigrants have the lowest crime rates. Compared to native-born citizens, undocumented immigrants are roughly half as likely to be arrested for homicide, felonious assault, and sexual assault. The gaps for robbery, burglary, theft, and arson are considerably larger, whereby native-born citizens are between 3 and 5 times more likely to be arrested for these criminal offenses. For most crimes, the criminality of legal immigrants tends to be less than that of native-born citizens. The exceptions to this pattern are homicide, where the rates are roughly equal, and sexual assault, where arrest rates for legal immigrants are considerably higher.

More myths:

Myth No. 1 — Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes. They actually pay a variety of taxes. Because many undocumented workers hold jobs, a large number pay income, Social Security and Medicare taxes, as well as sales taxes when they purchase items in stores and property taxes when they rent or own homes. One study found that they pay $162 billion annually in federal, state and local taxes. Another project found that the average immigrant paid $1,800 more in taxes than government benefits received.

Myth No. 2 — The United States rarely deports illegal immigrants. In fact, the government deports 350,000 people annually. Since 1999, more than 2.2 million people have been deported from the United States, including visitors who overstayed their visas, lied on immigration forms, or committed serious crimes. State and federal officials regularly check the immigrant status of those who are arrested or serving time in prison.

Myth No. 6— Americans oppose allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the United States and become citizens. Polling data suggest there is public support for a “path to citizenship” for illegal immigrants currently in the country, subject to certain conditions. Results from a Pew Research Center survey show that 63% favor a “path to citizenship” if illegal immigrants pass a background check, pay fines and have a job.

More:

It is true that there are more immigrants living in the U.S. than ever before. However, the percentage of immigrants in the overall population is not much different than many other times throughout our history. Today immigrants make up approximately13% of the total U.S. population. From 1900 to 1930, immigrants made up between 12% and 15% of the population, and similar spikes occurred in the 1850s and 1880s.

In 2014 there were approximately 11.3 million undocumented immigrants living and working in the U.S., which is actually a significant decrease from the 12.2 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. in 2007. Today, in fact, the net migration from Mexico (the number of people entering the U.S. from Mexico minus the number of people leaving the U.S. to go to Mexico) is around zero. Undocumented immigrants make up about 3.5 percent of the nation’s total population.

Studies have consistently found that immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans and that there was no correlation between crime rates and levels of immigration. Other studies have in fact found that crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates.

In fact, immigrants are twice as likely to start businesses as citizens born in the U.S., and companies owned by immigrants are more likely to hire employees than companies owned by native-born citizens. States with large numbers of immigrants report lower unemployment for everyone.

Immigrants collectively pay between $90 and $140 billion each year in taxes, and a recent study found that undocumented immigrants alone paid more than $11.8 billion in taxes in 2012. Everyone pays sales taxes on goods they purchase and property taxes on the homes they buy or rent, and more than half of all undocumented immigrant households file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers.

With very few exceptions (such as access to medical care for victims of human trafficking), undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federal public benefits such as Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and food stamps. In addition, most immigrants with lawful status are not entitled to these benefits until they have been in the country for five years or longer. This means that Social Security is often being deducted from immigrants’ paychecks but they cannot access those benefits.

Although people have claimed that undocumented immigrants have brought diseases to the U.S., including measles, hepatitis C, HIV, tuberculosis, and even ebola, the allegations are not supported by science or medicine. There is no evidence that immigrants have been the source of any modern outbreaks in the U.S. According to the World Health Organization, 113 countries, including many countries in Latin America, have higher vaccination rates for 1-year-olds than the U.S.

According to a 2015 report by the U.S Department of State, Bureau of Counterterrorism, “there are no known international terrorist organizations operating in Mexico, despite several erroneous reports to the contrary during 2014.” In fact, the vast majority of U.S. residents linked to terror since 2002 are U.S. citizens.

Although many people commonly think of undocumented immigrants as people who have snuck across the Mexican border, somewhere between one third and one half of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. have overstayed their visitor, student, or work visas. That means that they entered the U.S. with lawful documentation and only later became undocumented.

A wall or a fence along the entire border with Mexico would be impractical and very likely ineffective. The border between the U.S. and Mexico is almost 2,000 miles long. It spans difficult terrain, including deserts and mountains. Rivers flow along two thirds of the border. Much of the area is private property, which the government would have to buy from the owners to build a fence or wall, and many do not want to sell the land. The logistics alone make building a wall very difficult, if not impossible.

There's more:

https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/...igh-costs.html
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu...states-economy
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/m...s-economy.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/
https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...rs-not-takers/

[Whalers]

Your chain migration story keeps changing

Sorry, the story doesn’t change. This wasn’t chain immigration because it occurred before 1965,and yes, they had to be sponsored. They had to apply like everyone else. In 1965, Ted Kennedy implemented his "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" package that DID include his new plan for chain immigration, the end result being more Dem power. See any reason the nation should be very wary of more "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"?

Bottom line on the original story;
1) 50 Venezuelan POC's were dropped off in Martha's Vineyard (still waiting for RPI's picture showing 40% were red haired/green eyed Irishmen)

2) The "Compassionate" People of MV rallyed quickly to help them out ….. for 44 hours - Translation - we gave a few photo ops, said nice things and then hired a tour bus to bring Enrique and his pals off the island, under the watchful eye of the MA National Guard mind you, to the beautiful living conditions of a former air force base. Question: How many do you think will be "resettled" on the Vineyard? Anyone have the over under?

3) Marthas Vineyard capacity to handle 50 "Guests" - If they cant successfully care for 50 People of Color on short notice, then how can the island possibly care for 3500+ Anglers taking part in the Annual Sept/Oct Fishing Derby? Or for the annual wine festival that can accommodate 2500? Where do these people get housed and fed? Answer - yes, all of these attendees are also being housed at Joint Base Cape Cod, and day tripping over. :-)

https://www.weneedavacation.com/even...luefish-derby/

[aparch]

There's some real "big bowl of spicy chili gives me amnesia" energy being given off in that post.

[ericredaxe]

“Chain migration was good for my parents but not for people today”

[ScoobyDoo]

“Chain migration was good for my parents but not for people today”

Republican thinking in a nutshell. Me, me, me, me, **** everyone else.