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College Football 2022: “Here’s a twenty, bury two.”

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  • ND is already a member of the B1G. At least for this boards sport.

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    • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
      Not a huge ND fan, but other than Navy, are there long term rivals that are not among the new B1G?
      There’s a couple in the ACC. Pitt is actually their fifth most played rival, but that doesn’t seem to get much attention these days. And they have a trophy game with BC.

      If you want to count Army, that’s another, but they stopped playing them regularly in the 70s or 80s.
      Go Green! Go White! Go State!

      1966, 1986, 2007

      Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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      • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
        ND is already a member of the B1G. At least for this boards sport.
        I've never been clear how that works. Does it mean they already have cleared some of the hurdles for football? Is it just a matter of flipping the football TV contract toggle because they already are through with all the conference paperwork?
        Cornell University
        National Champion 1967, 1970
        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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        • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

          I've never been clear how that works. Does it mean they already have cleared some of the hurdles for football? Is it just a matter of flipping the football TV contract toggle because they already are through with all the conference paperwork?
          There is probably some clearance they already passed having the “gravitas” to be a member, but as far as actual contracts go I don’t think so. They still have their NBC contract for hockey. The playoffs are the only time BTN or Fox broadcasts from ND’s arena.

          I would imagine the conversation went something like “You’re a like-minded school. We need another member. Your conference seems to hate you and you have to fly everywhere. Would you like to play here where you can bus to four schools and play three old conference foes?”

          Much like the Johns Hopkins conversation probably went “You’re a like-minded school. In fact, you’re ranked above all of us. You have the most historic program in lacrosse. Would you like to join these schools dumping money into their programs and help us get an autobid? You even get to play your biggest rival Maryland.”
          Go Green! Go White! Go State!

          1966, 1986, 2007

          Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

            There is probably some clearance they already passed having the “gravitas” to be a member, but as far as actual contracts go I don’t think so. They still have their NBC contract for hockey. The playoffs are the only time BTN or Fox broadcasts from ND’s arena.

            I would imagine the conversation went something like “You’re a like-minded school. We need another member. Your conference seems to hate you and you have to fly everywhere. Would you like to play here where you can bus to four schools and play three old conference foes?”

            Much like the Johns Hopkins conversation probably went “You’re a like-minded school. In fact, you’re ranked above all of us. You have the most historic program in lacrosse. Would you like to join these schools dumping money into their programs and help us get an autobid? You even get to play your biggest rival Maryland.”
            This all makes so much sense to me that of course they won't just do the obvious thing.

            My worry is we will get up on our arrogant high horse and demand special compensation inside the conference TV contract, and the Big Ten will, rightly, tell us to go pound a crucifix.
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

              This all makes so much sense to me that of course they won't just do the obvious thing.

              My worry is we will get up on our arrogant high horse and demand special compensation inside the conference TV contract, and the Big Ten will, rightly, tell us to go pound a crucifix.
              That would confuse me. They had a great deal at one time, but the B1G juggernaut surpassed that. Then there’s the research agreement that is much higher than that. ND is a relatively small school, so I don’t know their research budget. Still, if it’s like either of my alma maters, it’s considerably higher. So the school should remember they are more than a football school.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
                So the school should remember they are more than a football school.
                Notre Dame's pretension is:

                The University of Paris : The Dark Ages :: Notre Dame : The Secular Humanist Age

                Football and football money are just means to that end.

                They are playing for way bigger stakes than the FBS or a research grant. They actually believe that Lewis' trilemma tripe. They're serious as a Torquemada thumbscrew.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

                  If it was purely dollars based Washington and Stanford would’ve hitched a ride with USC and UCLA.
                  Of course it isn't only based on R&D dollars. But if Washington and Stanford both thought they could ****hole-conference-backdoor their way into playoffs and/or control the conference like Texas did in the Big 12, that would have absolutely factored into their decision to apply or not.

                  Fact is, Stanford and Washington are far, far better schools than USC both in terms of athletics and research. If they had applied to the Big Ten, they would have been welcomed with open arms.

                  All of that said, research is king. Big Ten schools often get more in NSF research alone every year than the entire athletic conference distributes amongst members. Academics is king and the regents of the vast majority of schools in the Big Ten understand that. Athletics is a feather in the hat that can help attract people to a more complete package of a school.
                  Code:
                  As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                  College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                  BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                  Originally posted by SanTropez
                  May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                  Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                  I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                  Originally posted by Kepler
                  When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                  He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
                    ND is already a member of the B1G. At least for this boards sport.
                    An affiliate member is a galactic difference in terms of benefits compared to a full membership. TV revenue, academic cooperation, etc.

                    But Notre Dame is and always has been the crown jewel the conference has sought that defies nearly all guidelines the Big Ten has in place for membership. They would be almost certainly accepted unanimously by every board of regents in the conference.
                    Code:
                    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                    Originally posted by SanTropez
                    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                    Originally posted by Kepler
                    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

                      Of course it isn't only based on R&D dollars. But if Washington and Stanford both thought they could ****hole-conference-backdoor their way into playoffs and/or control the conference like Texas did in the Big 12, that would have absolutely factored into their decision to apply or not.

                      Fact is, Stanford and Washington are far, far better schools than USC both in terms of athletics and research. If they had applied to the Big Ten, they would have been welcomed with open arms.

                      All of that said, research is king. Big Ten schools often get more in NSF research alone every year than the entire athletic conference distributes amongst members. Academics is king and the regents of the vast majority of schools in the Big Ten understand that. Athletics is a feather in the hat that can help attract people to a more complete package of a school.
                      USC is 3rd overall in total team championships, so don't sell them too short there.

                      Overall fact is, I don't think Stanford or Washington would have ever felt the Pac-12 was holding them back enough that they absolutely had to blow up college sports on the west coast to win a title. And of course by title, we mean football, at the sacrifice of all other sports. But USC feels it is their god-given right to always be a top 5 team in football and were more than willing to throw everything else out to have maybe a 10% better chance of making the playoffs each year.

                      And I'm not saying that Stanford or Washington won't follow suit now that the dominoes are falling. The other choice is to basically become a I-AA school, and both have sunk too much money into their facilities over the years to allow for that.

                      Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                      KDR

                      Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                      iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                      gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                      Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                      Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                      TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                      DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                      Test to see if I can add this.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by French Rage View Post

                        USC is 3rd overall in total team championships, so don't sell them too short there.

                        Overall fact is, I don't think Stanford or Washington would have ever felt the Pac-12 was holding them back enough that they absolutely had to blow up college sports on the west coast to win a title. And of course by title, we mean football, at the sacrifice of all other sports. But USC feels it is their god-given right to always be a top 5 team in football and were more than willing to throw everything else out to have maybe a 10% better chance of making the playoffs each year.

                        And I'm not saying that Stanford or Washington won't follow suit now that the dominoes are falling. The other choice is to basically become a I-AA school, and both have sunk too much money into their facilities over the years to allow for that.
                        Yeah, I guess i meant in terms of overall sports. But your point about football is well taken.
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

                          Of course it isn't only based on R&D dollars. But if Washington and Stanford both thought they could ****hole-conference-backdoor their way into playoffs and/or control the conference like Texas did in the Big 12, that would have absolutely factored into their decision to apply or not.

                          Fact is, Stanford and Washington are far, far better schools than USC both in terms of athletics and research. If they had applied to the Big Ten, they would have been welcomed with open arms.

                          All of that said, research is king. Big Ten schools often get more in NSF research alone every year than the entire athletic conference distributes amongst members. Academics is king and the regents of the vast majority of schools in the Big Ten understand that. Athletics is a feather in the hat that can help attract people to a more complete package of a school.
                          Never confuse grant dollars and academic excellence. They are very different animals.

                          R&D is one particularly narrow avenue of one particularly narrow range of academia. It just happens to coincide with the interests of big business and its alliance with government to secure public funding of private profit. But that should not be confused with education or the creation of new knowledge, which is academia's mission. Grant dollars are rocket fuel for certain applied fields and a bathtub for the most powerful and well-connected interests to soak their shares in.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                            Never confuse grant dollars and academic excellence. They are very different animals.

                            R&D is one particularly narrow avenue of one particularly narrow range of academia. It just happens to coincide with the interests of big business and its alliance with government to secure public funding of private profit. But that should not be confused with education or the creation of new knowledge, which is academia's mission. Grant dollars are rocket fuel for certain applied fields and a bathtub for the most powerful and well-connected interests to soak their shares in.
                            I don't think I did. I'm not saying academic excellence is exclusively what they're after. It's dollars and knowledge.

                            And you're wrong about the creation of new knowledge. You just are. Normally I just brush it off, but even i'm put off by the smarm and condescension of that comment. And I'm not sure the grad students, post-docs, and professors whose research is only possible through these grants would take too kindly to your classification of their effort and research.

                            I get it, you want pure research science and that's fine. The problem is that 99% of academic research isn't that. It's cool to find new types of quarks and solving the Poincare conjecture, but that's no more important than finding crops that are resistant to fireblight or discovering new ways to optimize the Haber Bosch process or whatever else you can find to sneer at as second-class research.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              I have understood our desire to remain Independent, but I'm afraid this is it. And assuming the question becomes not whether to join a conference but which to join, USC going to the Big Ten ended that. The ACC is a joke. We have only one potential conference home.
                              In the dawn of the era of the super conferences, I don't get why ND keeps insisting on being independent. It can't help their recruiting (just the opposite, in fact). Despite how much political and financial clout they now have, it's going to dwindle as the super conferences overwhelm them in those categories. And soon I suspect, those super conferences are going to eventually tell ND they no longer have any "easy" route to getting a bid to the football playoffs, and ND will have no ability to resist that movement. ND has got to see the writing on the wall. They can't be that stubborn. Can they?

                              (Mind you, I despise everything there is about ND and all it stands for. So, if they want to shoot themselves in the foot, I'll laugh my *** off.)
                              Russell Jaslow
                              [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                              U.S. College Hockey Online

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

                                In the dawn of the era of the super conferences, I don't get why ND keeps insisting on being independent. It can't help their recruiting (just the opposite, in fact). Despite how much political and financial clout they now have, it's going to dwindle as the super conferences overwhelm them in those categories. And soon I suspect, those super conferences are going to eventually tell ND they no longer have any "easy" route to getting a bid to the football playoffs, and ND will have no ability to resist that movement. ND has got to see the writing on the wall. They can't be that stubborn. Can they?

                                (Mind you, I despise everything there is about ND and all it stands for. So, if they want to shoot themselves in the foot, I'll laugh my *** off.)
                                I think it's just recently being realized that the conference TV money dwarfs what ND signed on their own. That was a big part of their initial holdout 10 years ago.
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