$5 Gas... It's De-Ja-Vu All Over Again...

[mookie1995]

still $1.06/gal here

[walrus]

The United States of America, and it's oil companies have purposely left refining capacity at dangerous levels that are always subject to rising prices during any glitch in the market. It is a national security issue and the US Government should take charge.

But, like guns, oil and gas is all about Republican Policy.

When was the last time a refinery was built in US? And would you build one when policy is to stop using gasoline?

[Handyman]

It isn't about building, it is that like 6 closed because of the drop in demand over COVID and to start the switch to biofuel.

[dxmnkd316]

It isn't about building, it is that like 6 closed because of the drop in demand over COVID and to start the switch to biofuel.

Exactly. We've had three historic shocks within the last two years to production systems that are specifically designed to run at steady state with limited ability to turndown without major efficiency losses (or worse, they just can't run).

1) COVID reduced consumption by nearly 50% in under a month.
2) The consumption recovered over 20 weeks (which is both long and short - long because the refineries were shut down because you can't idle them for months at a time without significant issues starting back up; and short because they didn't have the time to re-staff and re-commission these complex systems)
3) Russia invaded Ukraine and ****ed up the petroleum markets again

If you look at charts of gasoline consumption, the 5-year range only differed by at most 10% in any given month or week and the total in the five years prior to COVID only varied by like 18% across the entire range.

I'm not saying the oil companies aren't gouging us, they are. But there's almost nothing the biden admin can do at this point without invoking the DPA or subsidizing production costs.

The oil companies are going to need to hire an assload of people to staff up these refineries. That's not going to be cheap in a 3% unemployment market. I imagine subsidizing these labor markets is going to cause even more chaos as skilled labor wages shoot up to match.

[RaceBoarder]

Great. You get a $100 savings over the next three months. Meanwhile my industry loses out on $20 Billion (with a B) of funding.

Also, why, if oil price per barrel is similar or less than it was in 2014, why is gas almost double the price? Why did the Republicans vote no to investigating price gouging? Why do the ****ing Democrats always have to bear the problems the Republicans make?

I'm not saying that your points aren't legit... I'm saying that they are over the heads of 70% of the population... People don't want to know "how the sausage is made" so to speak with this stuff...

That's the issue...

[Kepler]

I'm not saying that your points aren't legit... I'm saying that they are over the heads of 70% of the population... People don't want to know "how the sausage is made" so to speak with this stuff...

That's the issue...

Those are different issues, though. The thing (ontology) vs how to explain that thing (epistemology).

While it is of course highly fraught to try to explain reality to the gen pop, that has nothing to do with what reality actually is. The large majority of people are not and will never be up to understanding reality. Their skillset is bounded at eating, excreting, and making copies of themselves.

"Everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.'

There are areas of human endeavor which simpler are too complex and important to be left to the average citizen. Science, obviously. Education. Health. Economics. Ethics. Democracy is a fine thing for business, religion, technology, entertainment and violence. That's the appropriate level of self-determination for the apes. But for functions above that, for god's sake have a meritocracy that is well-insulated from the Common Man.

[MichVandal]

When was the last time a refinery was built in US? And would you build one when policy is to stop using gasoline?

And there's the rub- the oil industry has seen the writing on the wall that their time is limited. So when oil prices got so low they had to give it away, they didn't bother to do maintenance or add capability that would eventually return. And they can rake in some massive money while oil goes the the wayside. Some reasonable theories are presented here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQbm...verProductions

If it were government raking the money in and quickly turning it into infrastructure, that would be ideal for the green party. But it's going straight into oil profits.

As a former auto engineer- they are still waiting for their profit sharing checks that people seem to think were so tied to big oil.

[busterman62]

Some WH mouthpiece was on NPR this evening trying to hype the "Gas Tax Holiday". She kept repeating something to the effect of "historic economic times" and that the removal of the federal gas tax was "part of a bigger plan". She tried to sell how JB was going to get the States and Oil Co. to all come together, sing Kumbaya, and pass these savings on to the public. All that would jack up the expected savings would be $1/gallon rather than just $0.18. (FWIW Dept: Based on average miles driven and average mpg, the savings each driver would get from this policy would be about $26 if only the Feds play. If everyone plays nicely, it will be about $145. YMMV)

All I could think of at the time was Kevin Bacon screaming "Remain calm. All is well."

Granted, this is a political PR move but whoever thought it up and the people they've sent out to sell it need to work on their resumes. As aparch has stated, this $ is far more beneficial being used for infrastructure than on a political stunt.

[dxmnkd316]

Those are different issues, though. The thing (ontology) vs how to explain that thing (epistemology).

While it is of course highly fraught to try to explain reality to the gen pop, that has nothing to do with what reality actually is. The large majority of people are not and will never be up to understanding reality. Their skillset is bounded at eating, excreting, and making copies of themselves.

"Everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.'

There are areas of human endeavor which simpler are too complex and important to be left to the average citizen. Science, obviously. Education. Health. Economics. Ethics. Democracy is a fine thing for business, religion, technology, entertainment and violence. That's the appropriate level of self-determination for the apes. But for functions above that, for god's sake have a meritocracy that is well-insulated from the Common Man.

Hey, cool. Let me know when the Democrats or literally anyone else figures out the messaging to not lose 300 seats in the house. Because you can quote Einstein, wax philosophical, and demand people respect logic, but when it comes down to it, the average person is as dumb as pigeon and has an attention span of a goldfish.

[dxmnkd316]

Some WH mouthpiece was on NPR this evening trying to hype the "Gas Tax Holiday". She kept repeating something to the effect of "historic economic times" and that the removal of the federal gas tax was "part of a bigger plan". She tried to sell how JB was going to get the States and Oil Co. to all come together, sing Kumbaya, and pass these savings on to the public. All that would jack up the expected savings would be $1/gallon rather than just $0.18. (FWIW Dept: Based on average miles driven and average mpg, the savings each driver would get from this policy would be about $26 if only the Feds play. If everyone plays nicely, it will be about $145. YMMV)

All I could think of at the time was Kevin Bacon screaming "Remain calm. All is well."

Granted, this is a political PR move but whoever thought it up and the people they've sent out to sell it need to work on their resumes. As aparch has stated, this $ is far more beneficial being used for infrastructure than on a political stunt.

Hey, this is cool too. Maybe you should have worked harder to get your side to do something about this **** when they had Donnie and the senate. Maybe they should have done something about COVID and not begged opec to cut production.

but yeah, you keep whining about the democrats playing politics.

[busterman62]

Hey, this is cool too. Maybe you should have worked harder to get your side to do something about this **** when they had Donnie and the senate. Maybe they should have done something about COVID and not begged opec to cut production.

but yeah, you keep whining about the democrats playing politics.

Just for clarification, who is my side?

[dxmnkd316]

"Which is my side?"

It's kind of neat. Like a flock of birds, you, hovey, and joe all have the same call. Republicans who have the smarts to know it's embarrassing to be a Republican but won't do **** about it.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I love this version of dx

But ugh quoting the troll

[Handyman]

Dx is ****ed...I'm Luke a proud papa over here!

God I wish George Carlin was alive...he would bevin awe how right he was. Nihilism and stupidity won.

[busterman62]

"Which is my side?"

It's kind of neat. Like a flock of birds, you, hovey, and joe all have the same call. Republicans who have the smarts to know it's embarrassing to be a Republican but won't do **** about it.

Sorry, Floater Voter (No Party Preference, Independent, Unaffiliated... whatever). The type of voter that gets po'd when either party pulls a cheap political stunt but even more so when they supported them.