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  • #76
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post



    My guess is that the union won't put the cops out on strike and fall into that trap, but who knows.
    The city would love it if their union was that stupid. Maybe the 5h!t-for-brains who runs it is just that stupid. He seems like the kind of idiot for whom phony bluster and tough talk impresses both his members and him, so I guess you never know.

    I am not well versed in Minnesota's public sector collective bargaining statutes, so I don't know what kind of mutually agreed upon dispute resolution they utilize if the parties can't reach an agreement. But if I was the City Of Minneapolis I might be thinking of taking as hard a line in bargaining with that union as possible, as the citizens would likely back up the strategy. Instead of walking away from negotiations for now, I might want them at the table in a weakened state.

    There is obviously going to be some sort of a police department operating within the city limits of Minneapolis, and it will eventually be unionized, so why not find a way to bring the current union to its knees and negotiate a contract that might actually give the city sufficient oversight to get rid of bad actors and put in place the reforms needed?

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    • #77
      Top Tulsa police officer: 'We're shooting African Americans about 24 percent less than we probably ought to be'

      The same cop also penned this: Follow Commands Or Die

      Thank God this cop's attitude and opinions are not widespread among most police officers.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post

        The city would love it if their union was that stupid. Maybe the 5h!t-for-brains who runs it is just that stupid. He seems like the kind of idiot for whom phony bluster and tough talk impresses both his members and him, so I guess you never know.

        I am not well versed in Minnesota's public sector collective bargaining statutes, so I don't know what kind of mutually agreed upon dispute resolution they utilize if the parties can't reach an agreement. But if I was the City Of Minneapolis I might be thinking of taking as hard a line in bargaining with that union as possible, as the citizens would likely back up the strategy. Instead of walking away from negotiations for now, I might want them at the table in a weakened state.

        There is obviously going to be some sort of a police department operating within the city limits of Minneapolis, and it will eventually be unionized, so why not find a way to bring the current union to its knees and negotiate a contract that might actually give the city sufficient oversight to get rid of bad actors and put in place the reforms needed?
        I believe the contract expired in December, and they've been negotiating ever since. You can find a copy online, I'm sure.

        As I wrote earlier, Minnesota has "interest arbitration" for essential employees who are not allowed to strike. Thus, if the City takes an unreasonably hard line against the union, the union will simply request interest arbitration and let an arbitrator decide.

        Now, that is not without some risk for the union as well. You never know what an arbitrator may conclude. However, most of the arbitrators assigned in Minnesota come out of either the labor ranks or academia, so they've typically been a little more pro-union. How that will work with cops in today's world is anyone's guess.
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          However, most of the arbitrators assigned in Minnesota come out of either the labor ranks or academia, so they've typically been a little more pro-union. How that will work with cops in today's world is anyone's guess.
          One would think that but I'm not sure it's true. The ILR school at Cornell is one of the feeders for the people who make those decisions, and when I was there at least it was divided right down the middle between pro-labor and Randian Moron.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Kepler View Post

            One would think that but I'm not sure it's true. The ILR school at Cornell is one of the feeders for the people who make those decisions, and when I was there at least it was divided right down the middle between pro-labor and Randian Moron.
            Yep. Both sides need con$ultant$.
            If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

              So you think that if you have a big group of unionized employees working for you that you don't like, and you really don't like their union agent, that you can just magically wave your hand and tell them they are all fired and you get to go out and hire a brand new group of people to come in and perform some or all of the same duties and they're not in the union anymore and they're not represented by the union agent you don't like, and all is good? That's how you think labor law works?

              I think there are a lot of employers out there that will be really curious to see if you're right.

              If the City of Minneapolis just decides to disband its police force and farm it out to someone else to do (after they amend their Charter) they can do that. They'll have to negotiate the effects of that with the cops, but it can be done.

              However, if the City of Minneapolis decides to keep operating a police force, just not the current police force, and they think they're just going to let go all the current cops and face no recourse, my response to them is good luck. The City will find themselves with a newly named law enforcement group made up of the same cops who are in the current group. But hey, it'll have a new name.

              Everyone's darling is Camden, NJ. That's probably the first, and almost certainly the last, anyone will ever write that. Camden dissolved their police force and magically turned their city into utopia.

              But what really happened in Camden?

              Camden had something like 220 cops. They were dirty (it's New Jersey, so I shouldn't have to type that, but I did.)

              According to current urban legend, they fired all the old cops and hired all new cops and solved all their problems. What really happened is that Camden fired their 220 cops and told them they'd have to reapply for their jobs with the newly named county department. Something like 155 of them did, and were immediately rehired. About 65 chose not to apply for the new force, for reasons that aren't clear to me.

              Camden then went out and doubled the size of the new force bringing it up to more than 400 officers.

              So yeah, they ended up with 400 cops, 250 of them were brand new and were presumably not corrupt (I only say presumably because, New Jersey). But did they do that by really getting rid of the old force and hiring a new force? Not really. 70% of the old force came to work for the new force, and who knows, if the rest had chosen to apply that percentage might have been even higher. The way they got a new force, essentially, was by doubling the size of the force itself.

              We all know, based upon conversations everyone had with Rube, that adding more cops is not the answer, although apparently in the utopia known as Camden, NJ, it is.

              Is that your plan for Minneapolis?
              No I think they will be sued to high heaven for breach of contract. (depending on the wording of said contract) That wont matter though because if the city does not authorize the officers they are just rent a cops anyways. The badge only carries weight if it is sanctioned by the city and they arent going to do that even during arbitration after they dissolve everything. (and I dont see a court approving an injunction because the police are being investigated for civil rights issues anyways)

              It is going to be a mess...that is why I said it is going to be a slow moving process. As a pro-union guy I hate the idea of breaking the union in theory but the only way anything changes (even without defunding) is for the union to be slapped back a bit. They have way too much power. The Strib did a series of articles back in I think 2017 about how hard it is to keep cops off the force even when they are convicted of crimes. It is insane. The police are unchecked and have been forever. That is how the 3rd precinct became the disaster that it was.

              And what urban legend are you talking about with Camden? Literally every story ever written about them is how they fired everyone and then allowed officers to re-apply. You are either ignoring it or are spending way too much time talking your friends on Siouxsports. Compton did it too btw.

              I have zero problem with cops re-applying...it is much harder to get a job than it is to keep it. Let their record speak for itself.
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
                Sometimes, the internet works. Moron tells Tom Morello he used to be a fan until Morello's political opinions came out...internet (and Morello) respond as can be expected.

                https://news.avclub.com/man-criticiz...-po-1843979630
                I used to like the Blues...until it started to get all depressing. I listen to music to be happy.
                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                -aparch

                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                -INCH

                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
                  Sometimes, the internet works. Moron tells Tom Morello he used to be a fan until Morello's political opinions came out...internet (and Morello) respond as can be expected.

                  https://news.avclub.com/man-criticiz...-po-1843979630
                  Was it one of the NAPALM dudes that had a meltdown here when they finally figured out what Springsteen was singing about all these years? Might be another board but I know that happened somewhere and it was glorious.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    After 35 years in labor relations it has always been my observation that arbitrators are 50/50 people. They know if they tend to favor management too much, the union will not select them (or seek to remove them from permanent panels if that is part of dispute resolution procedures) and vice versa, if they find in favor of the union, the boss will bypass that name. When selecting arbitrators I would look at the roster I was presented (often 7 names) and research them (their biography, schooling, previous employers and to the extent possible the history of their rulings). If one was at the bottom of my list, that name was almost certain to be at the top of the employers. Very rarely did an employer strike a name that was going to be my 1st or second strike on a list.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      https://twitter.com/RingOfFireMedia/...11724363505665

                      Florida Police Union Leader Suspended For Intentionally Recruiting Abusive Cops
                      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                      -aparch

                      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                      -INCH

                      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                        I used to like the Blues...until it started to get all depressing. I listen to music to be happy.
                        I hate the blues because it's black music. So I stick to rap.

                        My god, those Comments. The Cypress Hill one made me wet myself. The dishwasher put me over the edge.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 06-10-2020, 04:11 PM.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1270817287168315393

                          Louisville police release Breonna Taylor incident report listing injuries as 'none'

                          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                          -aparch

                          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                          -INCH

                          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                            https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1270817287168315393

                            Louisville police release Breonna Taylor incident report listing injuries as 'none'
                            She didn't mention any.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                              After 35 years in labor relations it has always been my observation that arbitrators are 50/50 people. They know if they tend to favor management too much, the union will not select them (or seek to remove them from permanent panels if that is part of dispute resolution procedures) and vice versa, if they find in favor of the union, the boss will bypass that name. When selecting arbitrators I would look at the roster I was presented (often 7 names) and research them (their biography, schooling, previous employers and to the extent possible the history of their rulings). If one was at the bottom of my list, that name was almost certain to be at the top of the employers. Very rarely did an employer strike a name that was going to be my 1st or second strike on a list.
                              So. Jurors.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                lol
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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