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  • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    Yeah well the Trumpers and the Cop Humpers are out in full force saying it exonerates the cops. I am not sure how but I am sure someone around here will open up their mouth and diarrhea out a reason.
    I won't watch the videos. I can't watch a man be murdered. What on Earth could the videos show that would exonerate the cops?

    Comment


    • That he resisted...cause that makes murder ok.
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        That he resisted...cause that makes murder ok.
        Please. The lawyers want us to call it “advanced incarceration techniques”
        Code:
        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
        Originally posted by SanTropez
        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
        Originally posted by Kepler
        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

          Please. The lawyers want us to call it “advanced incarceration techniques”
          Yeah it makes me sick...
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            That he resisted...cause that makes murder ok.
            He should have fired on police with his AK like that white guy did yesterday

            Comment


            • The question in the Minneapolis case is never going to be about Chauvin (the guy with his knee on Floyd's throat.) He's going to be convicted. In fact, he tried to plead guilty back when it was 3rd degree murder, but couldn't get it done. It won't shock me at all to see a plea of guilty out of him at some point. Right now it's all about negotiating the sentence. The prosecution is obviously going to go for a "departure" above the sentencing guidelines, which the defense will fight.

              The real question in this case is going to be about the three other cops. Unless there is something in the video that shows some pretty bad conduct on their part, this whole case is going to turn on whether the prosecution can convince the jury that the cops had a duty to intervene and stop Chauvin.

              There are some things I don't know about that question. For instance, I don't know if there was any sort of "presiding" position among the officers. That is, was any one of them in charge.

              Second, the Minnesota legislature just specifically made it the law that cops have to intervene in this situation, which seems to imply that it wasn't the law at the time of Floyd's death (or at least some jurors might assume so).

              But that's going to be the real question in the trial. Can the AG's office extend the conviction beyond Chauvin to the cops who were with him.
              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by aparch View Post
                My stomach turned reading this article and watching the clip. Leaked bodycam video shows George Floyd brutally beaten by rookie cop before fatal arrest.
                Wait, I'm sorry but where in the video can it be seen he's being beaten? Don't get me wrong - in the last few seconds it surely sounds like something is afoot but what am I missing?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                  The prosecution is obviously going to go for a "departure" above the sentencing guidelines, which the defense will fight.
                  Look, I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but sentencing guidelines are a federal court thing. He's charged in state court, where sentences are defined by statute. The defense can ask for the minimum, the state can ask for the max, and the judge can pick anywhere in the range.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                    The question in the Minneapolis case is never going to be about Chauvin (the guy with his knee on Floyd's throat.) He's going to be convicted. In fact, he tried to plead guilty back when it was 3rd degree murder, but couldn't get it done. It won't shock me at all to see a plea of guilty out of him at some point. Right now it's all about negotiating the sentence. The prosecution is obviously going to go for a "departure" above the sentencing guidelines, which the defense will fight.

                    The real question in this case is going to be about the three other cops. Unless there is something in the video that shows some pretty bad conduct on their part, this whole case is going to turn on whether the prosecution can convince the jury that the cops had a duty to intervene and stop Chauvin.

                    There are some things I don't know about that question. For instance, I don't know if there was any sort of "presiding" position among the officers. That is, was any one of them in charge.

                    Second, the Minnesota legislature just specifically made it the law that cops have to intervene in this situation, which seems to imply that it wasn't the law at the time of Floyd's death (or at least some jurors might assume so).

                    But that's going to be the real question in the trial. Can the AG's office extend the conviction beyond Chauvin to the cops who were with him.
                    (I havent watched the new video and wont)

                    If the description is right the whole thing started out bad when Rookie Cop had his gun drawn when he first approached GF. If that is true, that is an unnecessary escalation for a possible counterfeit $20.

                    And the original video shows enough bad conduct. The standard for aiding and abetting:

                    Subdivision 1.Aiding, abetting; liability.
                    A person is criminally liable for a crime committed by another if the person intentionally aids, advises, hires, counsels, or conspires with or otherwise procures the other to commit the crime.

                    Subd. 2.Expansive liability.

                    A person liable under subdivision 1 is also liable for any other crime committed in pursuance of the intended crime if reasonably foreseeable by the person as a probable consequence of committing or attempting to commit the crime intended.
                    Ellison's burden of proof on the other 3 is different than Chauvin. If he can show that it is reasonable to believe that someone might die from what Chauvin did their inaction (even without explicit prevailing language) puts them right in line with what is described in the statute. (in theory since we dont know how it will be argued obviously) They would have had an out under this provision:

                    Subd. 3.Abandonment of criminal purpose.

                    A person who intentionally aids, advises, hires, counsels, or conspires with or otherwise procures another to commit a crime and thereafter abandons that purpose and makes a reasonable effort to prevent the commission of the crime prior to its commission is not liable if the crime is thereafter committed.
                    but none of them ever really makes an effort to stop Chauvin. Hell they dont even stop the citizen from filming it. It isnt until it is pretty obvious he is dead that they all of a sudden act like they think they did something wrong and even then only one shows any sort of remorse.

                    It is going to be interesting and by March who knows where we will be. I still think at least one of them will plead out (if not 2) which will throw a monkey wrench into all the speculation. Chauvin is going down and sooner or later rats flee the sinking ship. There is a lot of room to negotiate. If they other 3 do get off...I am not sure how people around here will react but I doubt it will be good.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by unofan View Post

                      Look, I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but sentencing guidelines are a federal court thing. He's charged in state court, where sentences are defined by statute. The defense can ask for the minimum, the state can ask for the max, and the judge can pick anywhere in the range.
                      Actually Minnesota does have sentencing guidelines.

                      That is what he is talking about. Minnesota is pretty hardcore about them (or at least they used to be back when I paid attention more) and going outside of them is allowed but controversial. If you check out the grids it basically is just a range with the average which is what you are saying but the state itself calls them the Sentencing Guidelines which is why he called them that.
                      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                      -aparch

                      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                      -INCH

                      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                        Actually Minnesota does have sentencing guidelines.

                        That is what he is talking about. Minnesota is pretty hardcore about them (or at least they used to be back when I paid attention more) and going outside of them is allowed but controversial. If you check out the grids it basically is just a range with the average which is what you are saying but the state itself calls them the Sentencing Guidelines which is why he called them that.
                        Of all the stupid things to import from the feds, criminal sentencing by fill-in the blank worksheets...that's up there with zero-tolerance school rules where kids get expelled for having pointed scissors.

                        Mea culpa, but I don't want to hear any shiat about Iowa after seeing that.

                        Comment


                        • Yeah when I learned about them in college I couldnt understand it. Just lazy and stupid.

                          And Iowa has way more things to make fun...feel free to mock Minnesota for this crap though I know I do ;-)
                          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                          -aparch

                          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                          -INCH

                          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                            Actually Minnesota does have sentencing guidelines.

                            That is what he is talking about. Minnesota is pretty hardcore about them (or at least they used to be back when I paid attention more) and going outside of them is allowed but controversial. If you check out the grids it basically is just a range with the average which is what you are saying but the state itself calls them the Sentencing Guidelines which is why he called them that.
                            Minnesota is still pretty hardcore about them.

                            If you look at the guidelines in your link, the charge against Chauvin basically call for a sentence of 150 months, but the judge can go up to 180 months without it being a "departure." Online you can find the Sentencing Commission's annual reports to the legislature, and as I recall, something like only 2% of the cases involve a departure upwards when the guidelines call for a specific period of incarceration but the judge goes outside the range.

                            My guess is Chauvin gets the 180 months (the top of the chart).
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by unofan View Post

                              that's up there with zero-tolerance school rules where kids get expelled for having pointed scissors.
                              Made far worse by the fact that the Board sits as the jury at expulsion hearings. Municipal boards and school boards are extremely frustrating for anyone seeking a well reasoned outcome that follows the law.

                              Comment


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