Cops: No Snarky Nor Positive Title

[unofan]

Maybe- that's what I thought when I first saw it. But that was also quickly replaced with the thought- what if what was a white teenager? Would they have shot, or physically tired to intervene?

That's where we are now- thinking of the REALLY obvious difference of treatment of white people doing worse things. That recent pull over in MN where the guy dragged a cop, when he was armed- did any cop even have their gun drawn? Or the whole Jan 6 debacle where cops were beaten to death- and there was a single shot fired the whole day.

So while it may have been justified- would a white teenager still be alive today under the exact same conditions?

If I'm the girl in pink about to be stabbed? I hope they react the same way. Because that officer was not close enough to physically intervene before she gets at least one good thrust at me and I'm probably dead, too.

[MichVandal]

If I'm the girl in pink about to be stabbed? I hope they react the same way. Because that officer was not close enough to physically intervene before she gets at least one good thrust at me and I'm probably dead, too.

I understand that.

But would they have reacted differently if she was white? I'm honest here. We've seen so many examples of the massive difference in reaction for white v black- it really makes me ask that question. This is where we are now- questioning the reaction. Even if the reaction can be easily justified.

[First Time, Long Time]

I understand what you're saying but I can't look at it that way and play a bunch of what ifs. I can only judge off what I see. And when I see someone about to stab another person...that's a justifiable shooting.

[Scarlet]

But again, she didn't appear to be running away or towards them. Couldn't they have aimed for her legs or something? Anywhere to cause her to fall and not somewhere that caused her to die?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...962141697?s=21

Tucker goes full Joker

Good lord

[dxmnkd316]

But again, she didn't appear to be running away or towards them. Couldn't they have aimed for her legs or something? Anywhere to cause her to fall and not somewhere that caused her to die?

She was on top of the other girl who was cowering against a car, about to stab her. Again, they're going to shoot to stop the threat as fast and as reliably as possible. Four shots to the torso is the best way to do that. You can't shoot at legs. They're too small, they move too much, and they're unlikely to stop the threat. Plus there's already a chance you hit the other girl just firing a shot. You have to take the highest percent shot.

[unofan]

But again, she didn't appear to be running away or towards them. Couldn't they have aimed for her legs or something? Anywhere to cause her to fall and not somewhere that caused her to die?

One, this isn't Hollywood. No one aims for a leg, nor should they because they'd be more likely to miss and hit bystanders. That is 100% not realistic.

Two, a knife that big is considered a deadly weapon. Police are absolutely justified in using deadly force to prevent someone from using a deadly weapon on another person. Hell, you or I would be justified in using deadly force in such a situation.

Three, if she were "running away" then the use of deadly force actually becomes more questionable, because it's more likely she is no longer posing an imminent threat to anyone. The only time deadly force is valid in that case is if the cop reasonably believes she still would still pose a threat to others.

[MichVandal]

She was on top of the other girl who was cowering against a car, about to stab her. Again, they're going to shoot to stop the threat as fast and as reliably as possible. Four shots to the torso is the best way to do that. You can't shoot at legs. They're too small, they move too much, and they're unlikely to stop the threat. Plus there's already a chance you hit the other girl just firing a shot. You have to take the highest percent shot.

I have not seen the video that closely- but it's interesting that the cop can't shoot in the leg, but can when a second person is that close. If they can't hit a leg at short range, what's to say they won't hit the other person? Risky shot.

And I STILL understand that it's most likely to be justifiable- I really understand that. But I STILL question if they would have reacted differently had the girl been white. Would they have taken a chance hitting a bystander?

[Scarlet]

I hear that, but still, if they shoot and miss and hit the car, the girl stops, in my opinion. And you can shoot for her torso and still hit an area that won't result in death.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm with dxmnkd316 and unofan on this one.

There was a deadly weapon.
There was an immediate threat and fear of great bodily harm or death to yourself or another*.
You do not go Hollywood; you stop the threat.

You never fire warning shots, even into the ground. You are responsible for that round until it stops moving, and maybe for a long time after; in the air lands somewhere.


*The risk is if you don't see the whole confrontation you might misinterpret the original aggressor and the person looking to stop the threat against them and make a horrible mistake. But if you saw it all, and see one cowering while one is winding up a knife strike, it's pretty clear imminent death is at hand.

[SJHovey]

Maybe- that's what I thought when I first saw it. But that was also quickly replaced with the thought- what if what was a white teenager? Would they have shot, or physically tired to intervene?

That's where we are now- thinking of the REALLY obvious difference of treatment of white people doing worse things. That recent pull over in MN where the guy dragged a cop, when he was armed- did any cop even have their gun drawn? Or the whole Jan 6 debacle where cops were beaten to death- and there was a single shot fired the whole day.

So while it may have been justified- would a white teenager still be alive today under the exact same conditions?

I don't think any cops were beaten to death on January 6.

[Handyman]

I understand that.

But would they have reacted differently if she was white? I'm honest here. We've seen so many examples of the massive difference in reaction for white v black- it really makes me ask that question. This is where we are now- questioning the reaction. Even if the reaction can be easily justified.

Probably. That doesn't mean what they did wasn't the right decision though.

There are degrees to this thing, and right now we need to focus on the people being assaulted/killed unjustifiably. We have to worry about the big stuff before we go deeper into the nuanced issues.

[Handyman]

I don't think any cops were beaten to death on January 6.

One was crushed to death...others were beaten pretty badly. But yeah Mr. Pedantic technically you are correct.

[WeAreNDHockey]

I hear that, but still, if they shoot and miss and hit the car, the girl stops, in my opinion. And you can shoot for her torso and still hit an area that won't result in death.

I know you mean well in posing these questions, but hopefully you'll come to understand all that entails a cop pulling a firearm and firing off rounds that not only could be, but are MEANT to be deadly. If an officer fires his or her weapon and misses but strikes a car, where is that round going to end up? Embedded in the fender or tire or roof of the vehicle? Hopefully. Or is it going to bounce off and end up in some innocent bystander's forehead? When John Hinckley shot Reagan in 1981 the injury to Reagan came from a round that bounced off the presidential limo and struck Reagan under his armpit. He nearly died, and it was only that he he was in a top-notch trauma center not 10 minutes after being shot that he survived. It simply isn't realistic or even desirable to have the police behave as you say when it comes to them using deadly force.

Is there systemic racism in the system that leads to people of color being killed without justification? Absolutely. In fact I think in the majority of cases where race is a present factor systemic racism is at play. And remember I say this as someone who is one of the most consistent (and vitriolic) cop bashers on this board. But I also understand firearms and what it means to shoot one. I wish every cop out there was capable of always hitting their target in such a way as to stop the threat but leave the person alive. But that is 100% unrealistic. We must go about solving the problems in other ways.

[The Sicatoka]

Four shots to the torso is the best way to do that.

An admittedly morbid and gruesome note to that is that torso landings greatly reduce the chance of a through-and-through and the round traveling further and harming those not the target.