Biden v Dump 1: If not now, when? If not us, who?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

And the West Coast secession is a least rooted in plausiblity. It definitely wouldn’t go as they say but I could see serious movement towards if things go to s-.

5% of the population starting to think it's a good idea instead of the current <1% would not constitute a 'serious movement'. Not serious enough, at any rate.

[Kepler]

Except that Infowars or some other nutball site doxxing the electors in the event of a close result is plausible.

It's probable. Any brown shirt stuff the Nazis can use is not just likely but a practical certainty.

We are dealing with actual Nazis. People still haven't wrapped their civilized minds around that. The GOP is now a white nationalist fascist cult of personality. They are no longer a political party and their Members are no longer politicians. They are a movement and their Members are cultists.

They use laws when it is useful and ignore them when it is useful. They are no longer part of the American social contract, they are a revolutionary vanguard.

[Handyman]

Infowars wont do it...the GOP themselves will do it. They were doxxing police brutality protesters...

[Jimjamesak]

5% of the population starting to think it's a good idea instead of the current <1% would not constitute a 'serious movement'. Not serious enough, at any rate.

It’s a little a more than that. There’s always been a Cascadia Independence undercurrent, heck that’s part of what founded the Cascadia Cup in MLS. It may be small now but, like I said, if things go to s- in November I could see it growing.

(Now the whole “we’ll secede if you don’t abolish the EC and admit PR and DC” thing is pretty far fetched)

[Kepler]

Seceding doesn't help anyway. The whole point, as Lincoln said, is there is no enemy territory, there are only enemies on our territory. The Nazis aren't Americans, they are a temporary fungal infection. America is a set of ideas embodied in the Declaration and the Constitution. It is not an ethnostate.

[Jimjamesak]

Seceding doesn't help anyway. The whole point, as Lincoln said, is there is no enemy territory, there are only enemies on our territory. The Nazis aren't Americans, they are a temporary fungal infection. America is a set of ideas embodied in the Declaration and the Constitution. It is not an ethnostate.

You may believe the “not real Americans” schtick but I certainly don’t. They are a minority but they’re large enough and hold enough power in enough territory that secession may well be the only solution. We’re not at that point yet but we’re a lot closer than some care to admit.

[Kepler]

You may believe the “not real Americans” schtick but I certainly don’t. They are a minority but they’re large enough and hold enough power in enough territory that secession may well be the only solution. We’re not at that point yet but we’re a lot closer than some care to admit.

It has nothing to do with their numbers. They're cancer cells. There could be twelve or 12 million, they are still cancer cells.

[Jimjamesak]

It has nothing to do with their numbers. They're cancer cells. There could be twelve or 12 million, they are still cancer cells.

Numbers in concentration in certain areas is the reason they’re in power. It has everything to do with numbers.

[Kepler]

Numbers in concentration in certain areas is the reason they’re in power. It has everything to do with numbers.

Of course they're in power. The Confederates were also in power. We're saying different things. I'm saying that they are an anti-American growth, that where they rule that rule is illegitimate because it violates the principles that are America.

The right believes that a fascist regime is America as long as it is white and Christian. The whole point of America is we could be 0% white and 100% Jainist and as long as we operated under our founding principles this would still be America.

America is an idea, not a population. The French are France and the Japanese are Japan no matter what their philosophy is. We are only American insofar as we: hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[Jimjamesak]

Of course they're in power. The Confederates were also in power. We're saying different things. I'm saying that they are an anti-American growth, that where they rule that rule is illegitimate because it violates the principles that are America.

The right believes that a fascist regime is America as long as it is white and Christian. The whole point of America is we could be 0% white and 100% Jainist and as long as we operated under our founding principles this would still be America.

America is an idea, not a population. The French are France and the Japanese are Japan no matter what their philosophy is. We are only American insofar as we: hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Yeah, I get what your saying and I’m calling BS. Racism is as American as apple pie, and so is denying rights, voter suppression, and abusing the government for your own personal gain. You say they’re a cancer, I say they’re organs functioning as intended. If anything the New Deal era was a cancer and the current era is a correction back to normal. Our country is designed to be this way, otherwise we wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place.

[Kepler]

Yeah, I get what your saying and I’m calling BS. Racism is as American as apple pie, and so is denying rights, voter suppression, and abusing the government for your own personal gain. You say they’re a cancer, I say they’re organs functioning as intended. If anything the New Deal era was a cancer and the current era is a correction back to normal. Our country is designed to be this way, otherwise we wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place.

I'm with Obama: our job is to correct the wrongs of the past. America is a good fundamental idea. Even if the Founders were sociopaths (which they weren't) the stated principles of America are sound and good. I am highly patriotic towards those principles. I am god d-mned Captain America when it comes to the Four Freedoms.



All the crap that has tainted America over the years is horrific, but it is a bug, not a feature, and our job is to clean it up and redeem our promise. That is our mission. We have one job: make America what it claims to be. That's what all the heroes from Thoreau to Lincoln to Harlan to Anthony to Holmes to Du Bois to Debs to Brandeis to FDR to Murrow to Chavez to MLK to Milk to Bernie to AOC have been doing. Slowly and painfully. It is the work of all those lifetimes.

So don't give me your defeatist sh-t that all those people were suckers. America is not irredeemably racist or plutocratic. If something bugs you do something, don't whine.

[SJHovey]

This Cascadia secession should be fun. About a year after it happens, they further secede from the eastern 90% of Washington and Oregon, and the entire north half of California not called San Francisco. And then again, and again, and again, until all these skater bois get to their real goal, a micronation along the lines of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.

Good times.

[Kepler]

and the entire north half of California not called San Francisco.

I see you have never been to Northern California.

[SJHovey]

I see you have never been to Northern California.

Strangely enough, I've actually spent more time in Northern California than Southern California. I like Northern California. Anything north of that line from Yosemite to SF is some of my favorite land, assuming I'm not resigned to driving people around wine country.

[Kepler]

Strangely enough, I've actually spent more time in Northern California than Southern California. I like Northern California. Anything north of that line from Yosemite to SF is some of my favorite land, assuming I'm not resigned to driving people around wine country.

Then you should know that Northern CA isn't Eastern Oregon. It's very different and it doesn't have any more patience for Nazis than SF or Berkeley or Oakland, each of which also hates Nazis for very different reasons.

This isn't pot heads, dude, it's a coalition of about thirty other groups of antibodies all mobilizing against your virus. I'd say know your enemy but it's more don't let the door hit you on your way out.