Originally posted by SJHovey
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Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
Actual damages may or may not be terribly high, but exemplaries could be off the charts Kemosabe.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
My guess is these cases, if competently defended, will be defended not on the truth or falsity of the statements but on the damages.
If no one believes the statements, no matter how outrageous or untruthful, there are no damages here. This case is even more interesting because it's not like these voting machines are a consumer product where the public gets turned off of them due to the statements. There are probably a very limited set of buyers for these machines (state and local election officials?) so they'll have to show that those individuals have decided against buying the product because of Trump's fraud claims. Probably not going to be that easy to do.
I don't think your strategy will help the defendants that much. There is no jury that won't think dominion has been damaged by what they said. Dominion has been 'linked" to foreign actors trying to overthrow our election. They were slandered on TV and Twitter thousands of times about changing votes. This is not some one off it is months of lies and harassment. It is not some giant leap to assume their reputation took a hit and future money will be lost."It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
-aparch
"Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
-INCH
Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
-ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007
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Originally posted by Handyman View Post
I am pretty sure they have already said it has happened. The CEO (or some high up officer) hasn't been shy about interviews on the subject. Their name is tarnished in American politics.
I don't think your strategy will help the defendants that much. There is no jury that won't think dominion has been damaged by what they said. Dominion has been 'linked" to foreign actors trying to overthrow our election. They were slandered on TV and Twitter thousands of times about changing votes. This is not some one off it is months of lies and harassment. It is not some giant leap to assume their reputation took a hit and future money will be lost.
First, he always cites the harassment and death threats against Dominion employees. Ok, that may be true, but that actually isn't a claim Dominion has, it's a claim the employees might personally have.
Next, he talks about spending a few million on security. Ok, that's probably a recoverable claim, but it's a far cry from a billion dollars.
Everything else is just very vague like "catastrophic hit to our reputation." That sounds good on tv, but does nothing in a courtroom.
Ultimately these cases will be settled for something, but it isn't even going to be in the same universe as $1.3 billion or whatever silly number they are looking for in these claims.That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
If you actually listen to his quotes, or what he claims, it's pretty sketchy in terms of damages.
First, he always cites the harassment and death threats against Dominion employees. Ok, that may be true, but that actually isn't a claim Dominion has, it's a claim the employees might personally have.
Next, he talks about spending a few million on security. Ok, that's probably a recoverable claim, but it's a far cry from a billion dollars.
Everything else is just very vague like "catastrophic hit to our reputation." That sounds good on tv, but does nothing in a courtroom.
Ultimately these cases will be settled for something, but it isn't even going to be in the same universe as $1.3 billion or whatever silly number they are looking for in these claims."The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984
"One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir
"Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth
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Originally posted by burd View Post
If it is libel per se (which it could be, since the alleged statements are about ability to perform a profession, even though these are corporate plaintiffs), proof of actual damages is not required, is it? On the other hand, as a general rule, courts do not allow sky high punies when actual damages are minor, even if a jury finds otherwise. Not versed on how that general rule applies to defamation, though.
As for court limitations on exemplaries, it would likely depend on the state they were in. Some states do not permit exemplaries on defamation claims. Some states have ratio caps (i.e. 1:1 ratio with actual/compensatory damages). Some states have soft caps (e.g. there is a 1:1 ratio, but if there is clear and convincing evidence of wrong, then it can go to a 3:1 ratio or a 5:1 ratio (or uncapped)). On Federal claims, I believe there is a presumed 10:1 limit...but I don't practice much with Federal claims (although, did have a sweet 1983 settlement last summer). I presume that Dominion would do the research and file in the right jurisdiction for them to get the best recovery.North Dakota
National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016
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Originally posted by Handyman View Post
I am pretty sure they have already said it has happened. The CEO (or some high up officer) hasn't been shy about interviews on the subject. Their name is tarnished in American politics.
I don't think your strategy will help the defendants that much. There is no jury that won't think dominion has been damaged by what they said. Dominion has been 'linked" to foreign actors trying to overthrow our election. They were slandered on TV and Twitter thousands of times about changing votes. This is not some one off it is months of lies and harassment. It is not some giant leap to assume their reputation took a hit and future money will be lost.North Dakota
National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016
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Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
What's the price of a machine, and how many states will have to update their voting machines in the next election, and the one after that, and then again, and again, and so on? You can make a claim that their reputation has been damaged to prevent greater future sales.That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
Their damages are going to be based on lost sales. My guess is that they won’t be able to demonstrate much, if any lost sales.
Actual/Compensatory damages: This includes projected lost sales (or lost revenue). Usually you get an expert in to calculate this amount, and it is as much art as science in some cases. As discussed below, this will be a pretty easy way to reach a pretty high number. State X's governor says they won't use Dominion because of the Big Lie? $$$$$$$. State Y's secretary of state says they will replace Dominion systems with another company? $$$$$$$.
Presumed damages: If they can get libel per se, which is likely. This amount can fluctuate wildly depending on the court.
Exemplary damages: As discussed below, depending on the state/jurisdiction, there could be certain caps in place, but almost certainly would get at least some multiplier of Actual/Compensatory damages.
SJHovey, not sure how many defamation cases you have been involved in, or litigated, but I would be interested in what experience you have with defamation claims and what jurisdictions those occurred in?North Dakota
National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016
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Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
Sorry, but this is really incorrect. They would likely have the following categories of damages:
Actual/Compensatory damages: This includes projected lost sales (or lost revenue). Usually you get an expert in to calculate this amount, and it is as much art as science in some cases. As discussed below, this will be a pretty easy way to reach a pretty high number. State X's governor says they won't use Dominion because of the Big Lie? $$$$$$$. State Y's secretary of state says they will replace Dominion systems with another company? $$$$$$$.
Presumed damages: If they can get libel per se, which is likely. This amount can fluctuate wildly depending on the court.
Exemplary damages: As discussed below, depending on the state/jurisdiction, there could be certain caps in place, but almost certainly would get at least some multiplier of Actual/Compensatory damages.
SJHovey, not sure how many defamation cases you have been involved in, or litigated, but I would be interested in what experience you have with defamation claims and what jurisdictions those occurred in?"It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
-aparch
"Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
-INCH
Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
-ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007
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Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
Sorry, but this is really incorrect. They would likely have the following categories of damages:
Actual/Compensatory damages: This includes projected lost sales (or lost revenue). Usually you get an expert in to calculate this amount, and it is as much art as science in some cases. As discussed below, this will be a pretty easy way to reach a pretty high number. State X's governor says they won't use Dominion because of the Big Lie? $$$$$$$. State Y's secretary of state says they will replace Dominion systems with another company? $$$$$$$.
Presumed damages: If they can get libel per se, which is likely. This amount can fluctuate wildly depending on the court.
Exemplary damages: As discussed below, depending on the state/jurisdiction, there could be certain caps in place, but almost certainly would get at least some multiplier of Actual/Compensatory damages.
SJHovey, not sure how many defamation cases you have been involved in, or litigated, but I would be interested in what experience you have with defamation claims and what jurisdictions those occurred in?
;-)Code:As of 9/21/10: As of 9/13/10: College Hockey 6 College Football 0 BTHC 4 WCHA FC: 1
Originally posted by SanTropezMay your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.Originally posted by bigblue_dlI don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..Originally posted by KeplerWhen the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
Lin, dat you?!
;-)"It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
-aparch
"Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
-INCH
Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
-ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007
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The other problem that's going to complicate the damages part of at least one of the cases is this. Smartmatic has sued Fox, but Dominion has also sued, I believe. Doesn't Dominion make the machine and Smartmatic make the software that runs the machine?
So Smartmatic is going to have to show that machine makers, like Dominion, aren't buying their software anymore. Well, Dominion can't come in and say that they won't buy the software because of the allegations of fraud made by Fox. Dominion itself is claiming the story is a bunch of hooey.That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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