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  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    I think it would be really interesting to know how many of the WSB guys are posting HOLD! while quietly profit taking as this stock drops from its high.
    Not everyone is like you, Hov.
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    • why don't hedge funds short it when it's at 200x value or whatever to cover their bets? Did they run out of liquidity to maneuver?
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      • Originally posted by geezer View Post
        why don't hedge funds short it when it's at 200x value or whatever to cover their bets? Did they run out of liquidity to maneuver?
        They have to find someone who will lend them a share to sell. I sure wouldn't right now - moral judgement aside, I'm not convinced they would ever be able to pay me back.
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        • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

          If someone on here can explain this to me, I will GrubHub you a steak dinner. I have never found anyone who can explain to me how stock prices are actually set, including my MBA finance professors. They only think at the micro level, on an individual trade basis. What are the macro effects of all the buy and sell orders that are going on? Some simple examples that would illuminate a lot, for me at least:

          Example 1: Say price is $50. 5 people say that they want to sell their combined 500 shares. 8 people say that they want to buy a combined total of 400 shares. I presume that the 400 shares trade hands at $50, but there are now an excess of 100 shares that want to be sold. Does that mean that "they" would drop the price to try to attract buyers for those 100 shares? If so, how quickly does the price drop? Do they knock off 1% and wait 1 minute, then drop another 1%? Or is it .1% every 3 seconds?

          Example 2: Price is $50. 5 sellers put in standing orders to sell 500 shares at any price over $49. I put in an order to buy 400 shares. I assume I get those shares at $50. Then what happens to the price? Would they drop the price to $49 due to the "excess" standing sell orders, but no lower?

          Example 3: Say price is $50. 10 people put in standing orders on 500 shares saying that they'll sell at any price over $55. I put in an order that I want to buy 100 shares, thinking that I'm going to get it for $50. Would "they" raise the price to $55 (due to the "excess" buy demand from me) to make those 100 trades happen (but I pay a 10% higher price than I expected)?

          Example 4: Same as example 2, but my buy order included a cap that said I was not willing to pay any more than $50. Would they still raise the price to $51 (even though no trades would happen) since there was a greater signal from investors that the price should go up (as evidenced by the greater number of sell orders at $55 than they have for buy orders at $50)?
          Selling and buying agents will find multiple customers of theirs to come together, forming what’s called a “block” trade - a block of clients, not blocking transactions from happening. A block can be as few as two clients, as many as their accounting system will allow, or something in between. These are very common, all customers get the same price, but the net proceeds are then divided out based upon quantity of shares each client sold or bought within the block. All clients within the block have the same transaction type.

          The counter party can be a single client for the contra broker, or a block of clients with the opposite motive.

          These blocks are very common when an investment manager has a group of clients and is performing a portfolio realignment.
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          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

            Not everyone is like you, Hov.
            That probably explains why the world is as farked up as it is.


            All joking aside, you can't tell me that there hasn't been some profit taking by these reddit guys, and that they're not sitting there weighing the social justice value of sticking it to the hedge funds with the cash value of selling.
            Last edited by SJHovey; 02-02-2021, 03:57 PM.
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            • Originally posted by unofan View Post

              Example 1 is easy - 400 shares ....
              Good stuff - thank you. I guess I always imagined it more like betting at a track, where there was someone/something (i.e. an algorithm) behind the scenes "setting" the price to try to accommodate/encourage trades to occur, in the same way an oddsmaker tries to set the odds to encourage betting. Seems more like the role of the market managers is really just to record the stock prices of the trades that the traders mutually agree upon among themselves.

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              • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                That probably explains why the world is as farked up as it is.


                All joking aside, you can't tell me that there hasn't been some profit taking by these reddit guys, and that they're not sitting there weighing the social justice value of sticking it to the hedge funds with the cash value of selling.
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                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                  That probably explains why the world is as farked up as it is.


                  All joking aside, you can't tell me that there hasn't been some profit taking by these reddit guys, and that they're not sitting there weighing the social justice value of sticking it to the hedge funds with the cash value of selling.
                  These are people that literally call their threads “GME YOLO”. They don’t care about the profit. The minute the hedges started their obvious manipulations is the minute people started saying “I don’t care if I lose $X, f- the hedges!”
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                  • Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post

                    So in theory hedge fund controllers could sell to each other at ridiculously low prices to 'artificially' drive the price back down? Not sure if that would present a net benefit to them within the current climate for Gamestop but it got me thinking.

                    I am superbly unsavvy on these matters. I can manage my 401(k) just fine and I have done well with stocks (namely Wal-Mart and a few others) but honestly a lot of this is way over my head.
                    I don’t think they get to pick who they sell to and the article Jim posted makes no reference to that. So I’m not sure what they all referencing.

                    If you are going OTC, you’re not selling on the exchange. Doesn’t this mean the exchange price wouldn’t be impacted?
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                    • Read the article I linked to, they absolutely do that.
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                      • Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                        These are people that literally call their threads “GME YOLO”. They don’t care about the profit. The minute the hedges started their obvious manipulations is the minute people started saying “I don’t care if I lose $X, f- the hedges!”
                        Because no one ever says one thing on the internet and then does the complete opposite in real life...

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                        • Originally posted by unofan View Post

                          Because no one ever says one thing on the internet and then does the complete opposite in real life...
                          My impression is that there are certainly some accounts that are pretending to be diamond hands in order to ensure their exit strategy but there also seem to be countless accounts who really are there to try to punish Wall Street for a variety of sins, perhaps even 1/100th of 1% of which are imagined.

                          Most of this is a guttural populist revolt against the very worst. most damaging actors in our society, who cannot be reached by any other means because all other legal and political avenues have been blocked by bribery. All movements also have cynical manipulators -- witness every crass marketer ever who made money off revolution. But "there exist bad people" does not equal "all people are bad."

                          And I can get behind people using their numbers to try to execute trades as a more laudable, constructive, and practical solution to inequality than actually executing the rich. For one thing, the daughters of the rich are sometimes redheads, and, unlike the daughters of the poor and middle class, they bathe regularly.

                          Last edited by Kepler; 02-03-2021, 06:51 AM.
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                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                            And I can get behind people using their numbers to try to execute trades as a more laudable, constructive, and practical solution to inequality than actually executing the rich. For one thing, the daughters of the rich are sometimes redheads, and, unlike the daughters of the poor and middle class, they bathe regularly.
                            Nah, we can always just spare the redheads...:-)
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                            • This seems sensible.
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                              • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                                This seems sensible.
                                It certainly seems truthful and likely, but I'm not sure about sensible.

                                The guy got in early, then bailed way, way too early just so he could pocket $40,000, then got in late and is watching all of his February options at prices in the mid-100s turn to garbage as the days tick by and the stock price tumbles below 100, so he's begging other people to buy to drive up the price.
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