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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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  • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Originally posted by rufus View Post
    Would they be returning the money if they hadn't been found out?
    I don't know. You don't know. No one knows. Hence, me giving the benefit of the doubt.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
      Sorry but this is evil. Ruth Chris is not a small business needing of protection. Large hotel chains aren't small businesses. They were fine and dandy taking money though they don't need and did so while others that actually need it suffer waiting.

      This is the crap Republicans always say Welfare Queens do...only this isn't a couple hundred bucks scamming...this is millions. And it wasn't a mistake and it wasn't an oversight they saw an opportunity and took it. Not some Rogue funky looking to get ahead...this was a concerted effort and the only reason they changed was they got caught and faced backlash.

      I don't begrudge companies from making as much as they can but this crap is disgusting.
      The law as drafted permitted companies with up to 500 employees to apply and further allowed commonly owned businesses like chain restaurants that are separate legal entities, but owned by one individual or a holding company to also be eligible. I think that was a bad decision by Congress but one discussed before passage. I don’t fault the businesses. They did nothing illegal. Blame Trump and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

      Comment


      • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        The law as drafted permitted companies with up to 500 employees to apply and further allowed commonly owned businesses like chain restaurants that are separate legal entities, but owned by one individual or a holding company to also be eligible. I think that was a bad decision by Congress but one discussed before passage. I don’t fault the businesses. They did nothing illegal. Blame Trump and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress.
        I would agree. Then, upon receiving the monies, the companies that really didn't need it, returned the monies. The motives? Undetermined. That will probably be all speculation and spin. (PS, also see: Harvard).
        End result? Many "loans" were returned, and to me, that is what matters.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
          And I'm not saying there are no companies doing that. I'm saying to automatically assume the worst of all companies is wrong.
          I get your point, I do. But the delivery of what you mean is not arriving as you think it is.

          Here's the thing. There *are* companies that needed the loan, are going to use it as intended, and meet the guidelines as they loosely were formed and recently tightened down. We all agree that they needed the help, and for them this program is likely a Godsend. I forget which poster here is balls deep into this loan program himself because his small business genuinely needed it.

          The problem is the large corporations, those with well in excess of the (first penciled in, later inked) 500 employee cap, who have enough capital to make it through this with nary a dent to the bottom line, standing with hat in hand purposely finding loopholes (or blatantly applying with no disregard) to take the money with no intent of it being seen by the employees that it was intended to.

          YOU make it sound like we're making this out to be a Venn diagram where every successful applicant to the paycheck protection program and greedy *ssholes are perfectly overlapping circles.

          Meanwhile, you mistakenly believe someone like yourself sitting at a desk filled out the applications out of the goodness of their heart to save their corporation.

          Both are wrong.


          There are lots of good small businesses who applied and were denied because some corporate CEOs felt that they needed to use separate tax ID's from their departments to maximize the amount they could, for lack of better wording, steal.

          Take the L and stop. We're all saying the same thing, yet you continue to argue like this is a goddammed Frank Capra film. Newsflash: in 2020, Mr. Potter keeps the envelope of cash, George Bailey jumps from the bridge, and Clarence doesn't exist.

          And I'm one of the ******** optimists around here.
          “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

          Live Radio from 100.3

          Comment


          • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

            Originally posted by aparch View Post
            I get your point, I do. But the delivery of what you mean is not arriving as you think it is.

            Here's the thing. There *are* companies that needed the loan, are going to use it as intended, and meet the guidelines as they loosely were formed and recently tightened down. We all agree that they needed the help, and for them this program is likely a Godsend. I forget which poster here is balls deep into this loan program himself because his small business genuinely needed it.

            The problem is the large corporations, those with well in excess of the (first penciled in, later inked) 500 employee cap, who have enough capital to make it through this with nary a dent to the bottom line, standing with hat in hand purposely finding loopholes (or blatantly applying with no disregard) to take the money with no intent of it being seen by the employees that it was intended to.

            YOU make it sound like we're making this out to be a Venn diagram where every successful applicant to the paycheck protection program and greedy *ssholes are perfectly overlapping circles.

            Meanwhile, you mistakenly believe someone like yourself sitting at a desk filled out the applications out of the goodness of their heart to save their corporation.

            Both are wrong.


            There are lots of good small businesses who applied and were denied because some corporate CEOs felt that they needed to use separate tax ID's from their departments to maximize the amount they could, for lack of better wording, steal.

            Take the L and stop. We're all saying the same thing, yet you continue to argue like this is a goddammed Frank Capra film. Newsflash: in 2020, Mr. Potter keeps the envelope of cash, George Bailey jumps from the bridge, and Clarence doesn't exist.

            And I'm one of the ******** optimists around here.
            That is all you really needed to say.
            Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
            Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

            Comment


            • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

              Originally posted by The Rube View Post
              I don't know. You don't know. No one knows. Hence, me giving the benefit of the doubt.
              So precious.
              What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                The law as drafted permitted companies with up to 500 employees to apply and further allowed commonly owned businesses like chain restaurants that are separate legal entities, but owned by one individual or a holding company to also be eligible. I think that was a bad decision by Congress but one discussed before passage. I don’t fault the businesses. They did nothing illegal. Blame Trump and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress.
                This I agree with. The intent was there, but the guidance as written in the initially passed bill coupled with the lack of guidance that banks had at first allowed this free for all to happen. The revised guidance and narrowed the scope is what should have been formalized originally, but was left alone like they were unwritten rules of baseball.
                “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                Live Radio from 100.3

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                  That is all you really needed to say.
                  I too like to use an excess of words when simply hanging up and listening would do.
                  “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                  Live Radio from 100.3

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                    And again, I really want to believe that this is someone trying to impress their bosses. The fact that the companies are returning the money...

                    Yes, it may be simply because of PR. I have an issue of automatically assuming that. That's it. I hope, really hope, that it's because they are doing the right thing. I could be wrong. And we'll never truly know.
                    Stop it. You are an adult. Do you believe in Santa Claus too?

                    Read what aparch said the CEOs aren't even hiding what they did.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                      And I'm not saying there are no companies doing that. I'm saying to automatically assume the worst of all companies is wrong.

                      Innocent until proven guilty is still a thing, right?
                      No. As we tell you every time you trot out that line unless we are on a jury we can decide on our own using whatever level of proof we feel is enough. That phrase is not relevant outside of a court of law.
                      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                      -aparch

                      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                      -INCH

                      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                      Comment


                      • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                        Stop it. You are an adult. Do you believe in Santa Claus too?

                        Read what aparch said the CEOs aren't even hiding what they did.
                        And some automatically assume guilt, where I assume innocence, unless guilt is proven. You know, like the law dictates (although like MNS said, not the public opinion).
                        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                        Comment


                        • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          No. As we tell you every time you trot out that line unless we are on a jury we can decide on our own using whatever level of proof we feel is enough. That phrase is not relevant outside of a court of law.
                          And that is part of the bigger problem in this world. We always assume the worst. It sucks.
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                            The law as drafted permitted companies with up to 500 employees to apply and further allowed commonly owned businesses like chain restaurants that are separate legal entities, but owned by one individual or a holding company to also be eligible. I think that was a bad decision by Congress but one discussed before passage. I don’t fault the businesses. They did nothing illegal. Blame Trump and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress.
                            Where did I say it was illegal? I said it was disgusting. Or am I "moving the goalposts" again

                            I even said they found a loophole in a previous post. What they did followed the law it just is greedy and wrong.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment


                            • Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              Where did I say it was illegal? I said it was disgusting. Or am I "moving the goalposts" again
                              You are correct, it's not illegal. And yes, those who take advantage of it when not needed are disgusting. Just don't automatically assume their motive as a whole.
                              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                Where did I say it was illegal? I said it was disgusting. Or am I "moving the goalposts" again

                                I even said they found a loophole in a previous post. What they did followed the law it just is greedy and wrong.
                                I don’t think you did say it was illegal.
                                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                                Comment

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