Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

If you all are THAT pessimistic, have no sliver of hope of SOME goodness in people.....why bother? Honestly. I am an optimist I believe that there is some good left in us as a species. The vitriol...my God.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

No, this was the bank working in cahoots with these corporations because they knew there was ZERO oversight.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!!

Sometimes the cynical option is the correct answer

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

If you all are THAT pessimistic, have no sliver of hope of SOME goodness in people.....why bother? Honestly. I am an optimist I believe that there is some good left in us as a species. The vitriol...my God.

Honest question, where’s the vitriol? Handy said you guys were naive but I didn’t think anyone was name calling or spewing vitriol. You were really sensitive last night too and i think this may be a tad overreaction.

There’s definitely more pessimism, but it’s because we’re paying attention and we care. Lots of us will be worse off in some ways after this disastrous admin.

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Honest question, where’s the vitriol? Handy said you guys were naive but I didn’t think anyone was name calling or spewing vitriol. You were really sensitive last night too and i think this may be a tad overreaction.

There’s definitely more pessimism, but it’s because we’re paying attention and we care. Lots of us will be worse off in some ways after this disastrous admin.

I care. This is a serious situation. Some companies are giving back the loans they think they needed, etc. I'm thinking it was someone that was trying to impress the boss, or maybe they thought they would need it and that was not the case, so they returned the loan.

Some on here are just shouting GREED GREED GREED! EVIL!

The latter might not be the case, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. *shrug*

[aparch]

If you all are THAT pessimistic, have no sliver of hope of SOME goodness in people.....why bother? Honestly. I am an optimist I believe that there is some good left in us as a species. The vitriol...my God.

It's the God honest truth. I've read articles that said large banks worked with these large cores because the lending banks get a cut as a courtesy for running this program.

I've listened to business owners talk on live radio about how they have no plan on paying back the loan because they got a loan at rates they couldn't have gotten without the pandemic.

I heard of a corporate CEO flat own admit to CNBC analysts that he can't wait to weed through his layoffs and hire back less employees at lower pay rates because "wages were inflated."


I believe there *is* good in this world, and that there *are* business owners who genuinely needed the loans and got them. I'll even believe that maybe a couple businesses took the loan when they weren't sure about the details.

But, this is coordinated theft by the banks and the large corporations who actively participated.

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

It's the God honest truth. I've read articles that said arge banks worked with these large cores because the lending banks get a cut as a courtesy for running this program.

I've listened to business owners talk on live radio about how they have no plan on paying back the loan because they got a loan at rates they couldn't have gotten without the pandemic.

I heard of a corporate CEO flat own admit to CNBC analysts that he can't wait to weed through his layoffs and hire back less employees at lower pay rates because "wages were inflated."


I believe there *is* good in this world, and that there *are* business owners who genuinely needed the loans and got them. I'll even believe that maybe a couple businesses took the loan when they weren't sure about the details.

But, this is coordinated theft by the banks and the large corporations who actively participated.

And I'm more than willing to admit there are the greedy businesses out there, and the ones that are giving back the loans...I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

[rufus]

I don't think Rube's being innocent here and you know how I feel about business and management. He's not saying the execs return the money out of the goodness of their heart. He's saying it's the equivalent of opening your bank statement and seeing that your $3,000 paycheck is instead $3,000,000. Even if you have a larcenous soul and you hate your company you do not spend that money because you know someday, very soon, you will go to jail.

Corporations are insanely risk-averse. In my industry at least they don't do anything that can be perceived as dishonest because they live in terror of the front page of WaPo. I assume all Fortune 500s are like this.

Remember: they don't have to cheat. The fix is in: they own the government. You never steal illegally if you can steal legally. "Give a man gun he can rob a bank; give man a bank he can rob the world."

If that's the case, why did they apply for these loans?

[rufus]

If you all are THAT pessimistic, have no sliver of hope of SOME goodness in people.....why bother? Honestly. I am an optimist I believe that there is some good left in us as a species. The vitriol...my God.

That may be. But there certainly isn't in big corporations.

As I said, that you do is so precious.

[Handyman]

I care. This is a serious situation. Some companies are giving back the loans they think they needed, etc. I'm thinking it was someone that was trying to impress the boss, or maybe they thought they would need it and that was not the case, so they returned the loan.

Some on here are just shouting GREED GREED GREED! EVIL!

The latter might not be the case, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. *shrug*

Sorry but this is evil. Ruth Chris is not a small business needing of protection. Large hotel chains aren't small businesses. They were fine and dandy taking money though they don't need and did so while others that actually need it suffer waiting.

This is the crap Republicans always say Welfare Queens do...only this isn't a couple hundred bucks scamming...this is millions. And it wasn't a mistake and it wasn't an oversight they saw an opportunity and took it. Not some Rogue funky looking to get ahead...this was a concerted effort and the only reason they changed was they got caught and faced backlash.

I don't begrudge companies from making as much as they can but this crap is disgusting.

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Sorry but this is evil. Ruth Chris is not a small business needing of protection. Large hotel chains aren't small businesses. They were fine and dandy taking money though they don't need and did so while others that actually need it suffer waiting.

This is the crap Republicans always say Welfare Queens do...only this isn't a couple hundred bucks scamming...this is millions. And it wasn't a mistake and it wasn't an oversight they saw an opportunity and took it. Not some Rogue funky looking to get ahead...this was a concerted effort and the only reason they changed was they got caught and faced backlash.

I don't begrudge companies from making as much as they can but this crap is disgusting.

And again, I really want to believe that this is someone trying to impress their bosses. The fact that the companies are returning the money...

Yes, it may be simply because of PR. I have an issue of automatically assuming that. That's it. I hope, really hope, that it's because they are doing the right thing. I could be wrong. And we'll never truly know.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

This isn’t someone impressing their boss. This is head guys being greedy. Look at the azzhole in Dallas who got the most - and the nice campaign donation. That wasn’t done by a middling minion.

“ Dallas billionaire Monty Bennett was the single biggest recipient of Paycheck Protection Program funds before they ran out, securing a whopping $96.1 million in relief for his hotel empire. Even though his three companies raked in $2.2 billion in revenue in 2019, Bennett made sure they were first in line to secure bailout money. In March, his companies laid off 95 percent of their employees, hired lobbyists for the first time ever, and Bennett himself made a $50,000 donation to Trump’s reelection committee.”

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-donor-hotels-ppp

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

This isn’t someone impressing their boss. This is head guys being greedy. Look at the azzhole in Dallas who got the most - and the nice campaign donation. That wasn’t done by a middling minion.

“ Dallas billionaire Monty Bennett was the single biggest recipient of Paycheck Protection Program funds before they ran out, securing a whopping $96.1 million in relief for his hotel empire. Even though his three companies raked in $2.2 billion in revenue in 2019, Bennett made sure they were first in line to secure bailout money. In March, his companies laid off 95 percent of their employees, hired lobbyists for the first time ever, and Bennett himself made a $50,000 donation to Trump’s reelection committee.”

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-donor-hotels-ppp

And I'm not saying there are no companies doing that. I'm saying to automatically assume the worst of all companies is wrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is still a thing, right?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

And I'm not saying there are no companies doing that. I'm saying to automatically assume the worst of all companies is wrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is still a thing, right?

Only in a court of law...not the court of public opinion.

[The Rube]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Only in a court of law...not the court of public opinion.

Yeah, well, that's a big part of the problem.

[rufus]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

And again, I really want to believe that this is someone trying to impress their bosses. The fact that the companies are returning the money...

Yes, it may be simply because of PR. I have an issue of automatically assuming that. That's it. I hope, really hope, that it's because they are doing the right thing. I could be wrong. And we'll never truly know.

Would they be returning the money if they hadn't been found out?