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  • Is this a big deal?

    A U.S. Department of Labor rule proposed Tuesday would make it more difficult for companies to treat workers as independent contractors, a change that is expected to shake up ride-hailing, delivery and other industries that rely on gig workers.

    ...

    The proposal would require that workers be considered employees, entitled to more benefits and legal protections than contractors, when they are "economically dependent" on a company. It could have wide-ranging impacts on company profits and hiring, household incomes and worker quality of life.

    The final rule is expected next year, after a 45-day public comment period that begins Thursday.

    The Labor Department said it will consider the worker's "opportunity for profit or loss, investment, permanency, the degree of control by the employer over the worker, (and) whether the work is an integral part of the employer’s business," among other factors.

    Most federal and state labor laws, such as those requiring a minimum wage and overtime pay, only apply to a company's employees, who can cost companies up to 30% more than independent contractors, studies suggest.
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    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      Is this a big deal?
      You tell me:

      DASH: -5.99%
      UBER: -10.42%
      LYFT: -12.2%
      Code:
      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

      Comment


      • Yeah that is going to hurt the gig economy but in all the right ways. This is great for the workers as they will actually be treated as human beings now and actual employees.

        You will know it is a big deal because Republicans will rail against it since it is likely to hurt some businesses and help actual people.

        Biden is just killing it.
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

        Comment


        • He's about to ****ing torch KSA too

          By the end of year 2 he's going to be the undisputed champ.

          jimmy carter, didn't he play for the Vikings?
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

            You tell me:

            DASH: -5.99%
            UBER: -10.42%
            LYFT: -12.2%
            Aren't they just taxi companies if they have to be employees?
            I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

            Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

            Comment


            • Originally posted by walrus View Post

              Aren't they just taxi companies if they have to be employees?
              This also begs the question regarding vehicle maintenance.
              It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

              Go Cats!!! GO BLACKHAWKS!

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              Comment


              • Originally posted by walrus View Post

                Aren't they just taxi companies if they have to be employees?
                Isn't that what they always were?
                What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  Is this a big deal?
                  It'll be interesting to see the impact.

                  The fiance of one of our daughters drives for Lyft occasionally. He has a full time job, but our daughter is an RN, and when she has a strange work schedule, he'll sometimes go out and pick up a few bucks rather than just sit at home alone. There is no chance he'll go to work as an employee of Lyft, primarily because he doesn't want to be told when he'll have to drive.

                  I think the real job where it'll be interesting to see the impact is in the trucking industry. There are a lot of independent contractors who own their own trucks but drive almost exclusively for one company. If they are all forced to become employees, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
                  That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                  Comment


                  • Knowing our government, they'll find a way to overcomplicate it. There are clearly instances where 1099 employment is being abused, like people doing rideshare full-time and barely getting by. There are others where it's acceptable, like fixed-length projects where you want a staff aug role only for the duration, like a business analyst or project manager. It's a line to walk.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                      I think the real job where it'll be interesting to see the impact is in the trucking industry. There are a lot of “independent contractors” who are forced to own their own trucks but drive almost exclusively for one company. If they are all allowed to become employees, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
                      Fixed.

                      FedEx is notorious for pulling this and have manipulated the laws that not only allow them to do this but to also make it extremely difficult to for the truck drivers to unionize.
                      U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                      Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                      I spell Failure with UAF

                      Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                      But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                      Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                      Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                        It'll be interesting to see the impact.

                        The fiance of one of our daughters drives for Lyft occasionally. He has a full time job, but our daughter is an RN, and when she has a strange work schedule, he'll sometimes go out and pick up a few bucks rather than just sit at home alone. There is no chance he'll go to work as an employee of Lyft, primarily because he doesn't want to be told when he'll have to drive.

                        I think the real job where it'll be interesting to see the impact is in the trucking industry. There are a lot of independent contractors who own their own trucks but drive almost exclusively for one company. If they are all forced to become employees, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
                        I think the problem is there is no choice. If a driver for Lyft or Uber wants to be a 1099 they should be allowed to be. But if they want basic employee protections because this is more of a job than a second hustle that should be an accepted norm. As of now no such choice exists.

                        You mention trucking, and that is exactly how trucking is set up at many companies. (like the one I used to work at) The drivers could choose to be 1099 if they wanted or they could work for us. Pay rates were different and routes were different (long haulers tended to be 1099s while LTL and "local" drivers were employees) but it was up to the driver how they wanted to work with our company. Again that should be how this is run, the driver should have the choice of how they classify themselves.

                        If Lyft/Uber/Dash/Others would have treated this like the trucking industry tends to they would not be having these issues. My guess is the Department of Labor won't get too out of control on the change but any change will hurt their bottom line for a while.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                          Knowing our government, they'll find a way to overcomplicate it. There are clearly instances where 1099 employment is being abused, like people doing rideshare full-time and barely getting by. There are others where it's acceptable, like fixed-length projects where you want a staff aug role only for the duration, like a business analyst or project manager. It's a line to walk.
                          To be fair, that's not Our Government per se. It's all the lobbying special interests who bribe their sh-t into the legislation. Take money out of politics and Our Government would respond to the will of people, not wealth.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • As someone who occasionally drives for Door Dash, it's gotten pathetic. They're offering a $10/hour option, but it means you get ****ty orders for $3.25 with no tip. You won't see good orders unless your acceptance rate is over 50%.

                            ​And I'm not likely to go back out for them unless it's absolutely necessary.
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                            • I have a lot of questions about this as well. I'm not opposed to in in theory by any means.

                              There was some reference to whether or not the driver earns some percentage of their income from this part time gig. That seems dangerous. Is there any more detail on that? What if I drive for all of the services? How is this even determined?

                              I give the companies no benefit of the doubt whatsoever, but how is Uber supposed to tell if Driver Bill needs to be a W2 employee or not? How often is this calculated? How often do I (as Uber) need to recalibrate?
                              I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                                I think the problem is there is no choice. If a driver for Lyft or Uber wants to be a 1099 they should be allowed to be. But if they want basic employee protections because this is more of a job than a second hustle that should be an accepted norm. As of now no such choice exists.

                                You mention trucking, and that is exactly how trucking is set up at many companies. (like the one I used to work at) The drivers could choose to be 1099 if they wanted or they could work for us. Pay rates were different and routes were different (long haulers tended to be 1099s while LTL and "local" drivers were employees) but it was up to the driver how they wanted to work with our company. Again that should be how this is run, the driver should have the choice of how they classify themselves.

                                If Lyft/Uber/Dash/Others would have treated this like the trucking industry tends to they would not be having these issues. My guess is the Department of Labor won't get too out of control on the change but any change will hurt their bottom line for a while.
                                We'll have to see what the regulations say.

                                If the regulations say that a person can opt to be an independent contractor, like the trucking companies do, then this regulation will be a big nothingburger because Lyft and the others will just have contracts with the drivers in which the drivers "opt" to be independent contractors.

                                On the other hand, if the regulation wants to have real teeth and says that it doesn't matter what the parties supposedly agreed to, that the Department of Labor will look at whether the other factors have been met (economic dependence, work mostly for that company, etc...), then it's really going to mess with the trucking industry and other businesses where the workers actually have a real choice, and many choose to be independent contractors. The reason is that businesses, like trucking companies, won't be able to take the risk.
                                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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