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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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  • #31
    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Kill the idea of contractors completely.
    So you want to be the formal employer of your electrician making the emergency house call when your furnace dies in January?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
      Just because you say a thing doesnt make it real. Short of having Federal Unemployment Protection there isnt much that can be done when 17 million people lose their job in 3 weeks.

      I am not saying the GOP hasnt screwed up the country and economy badly...but this isnt something that would have been fixed by that reversal anyways. Capitalism is the issue here...
      Yes. Capitalism is the problem. And the only thing that makes Capitalism work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        If they are independent contractors, who exactly are their employers?

        Businesses who have felt the crunch first are small businesses, typically owned by a single person. They're called sole proprietorships, usually, although some have incorporated or formed limited liability companies to try to give them some legal protection from creditors.

        There are something like 25 million of them, and they are far and away the most popular form of business. They include some guy cutting grass for a living. They also included, at one time, Apple, Amazon and a multitude of other enormous companies.

        So, you're just going to wave that magic hand of yours and deem those forms of businesses banned?
        Yeah except, and I know you know this, that many companies post ObamaCare to keep their numbers down started contracting workers as ICs to keep them off the rolls. You conveniently look at only the old school use of the IC handle when there are dozens of ways ICs are used (not just the gig economy) to avoid the business having to give benefits to workers.

        (I worked in the trucking Industry...this was HUGE)

        Independent Contractors are a joke nowadays, and are just a way for corporations to keep their workers making less than they should with less benefits.
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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        • #34
          Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

          I guess I hadn't really thought of it before. Everyone in these threads is a W-2.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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          • #35
            Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
            Yes. Capitalism is the problem. And the only thing that makes Capitalism work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.
            Ok...seeing as apparently you know what the Government could have done (and would have done if Democrats ruled the country for the last 40 years) what guard rails would be in place right now?
            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
            -aparch

            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
            -INCH

            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              Yes. The free market is the problem. And the only thing that makes the free market work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.
              Fixed that for you. The market economy is the problem but as long as there are energy or material scarcities it's still a good tool as long as it is regulated.

              Capitalism, OTOH, is just a method for horders of unearned wealth to exploit people who are productive and creative. Capitalism can die in a fire. It has no redeeming characteristics.

              Have workers own their place of work and produce products which then compete in a free market, with government as a watchdog to prevent the powerful from preying on the weak. We can have a market economy without billionaires and rentiers and political bribery. We can kill the demons who have hijacked Adam Smith's great idea and have a society where we care more about one another than our excess portfolio.
              Last edited by Kepler; 04-09-2020, 03:57 PM.
              Cornell University
              National Champion 1967, 1970
              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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              • #37
                Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                Originally posted by unofan View Post
                Just because Wall Street ignores it because it's good for their bottom line doesn't mean the rest of us haven't seen what a ****show it is.

                Every time some WSJ-reading Boomer talks about how kids these days love the flexibility of being an Uber driver, there are five millennials or zoomers pushing back about the reality.
                I can't speak to the news coverage in Omaha but I rarely see a discussion of the long term financial downside of the gig economy as your career and I wouldn't use the WSJ to wipe my rear end, let alone read it. Its not that people are openly campaigning for the gig economy although that does happen, its that the other side of the coin isn't discussed in depth beyond the anecdotes we're now seeing once the bottom has fallen out with no safety net for these people. Its not just uber drivers. Its nurses, tech support, laborers, etc etc. All of these people will have to work until they drop, if they're able to keep finding jobs, as there is no benefits or retirement associated with their work.

                Regarding a solution, I would say something like if you hire a contractor for more than 3 months you have to offer them health insurance just like regular employees and also pay your contribution to their payroll taxes. Retirement is a little tricky as most companies that I've worked for make you wait a year before they start contributing a match.
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                • #38
                  Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                  Originally posted by Rover View Post
                  More than that too. Nurses (LPN's), tech people, etc - lots of people working on a contract basis out there. We're about to realize the scope of that the hard way unfortunately.
                  Yeah. Plus, in many businesses the ICs dont get to unionize. That is why the gig workers strike is a joke because there are 17 million people who will cross that picket line tomorrow if it means they can pay their bills. Like Instacart gives is scared...
                  "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                  -aparch

                  "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                  -INCH

                  Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                  -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                    Originally posted by rufus View Post
                    What the hell good does a payroll tax cut do for people who aren't working?

                    Just cut everyone a check. Or multiple checks.
                    Hey Amazon is paying their employees well and being safe they deserve a cut...oh wait!

                    Capitalism is the problem. We could have instituted short term UBI (as you know) and saved the economy for cheaper. Instead we gave corporations a ton, the people very little and pretended to care about small business.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      Ok...seeing as apparently you know what the Government could have done (and would have done if Democrats ruled the country for the last 40 years) what guard rails would be in place right now?
                      The first one is obvious. Single Payer Health Care. That takes a lot of stress off the system. #2? Family Leave. #3 Better Unemployment Insurance. What we have now sucks. #4. All of this would be made available to everyone instead of just people who are anything but self employed. My wife is self employed. It puts a lot of stress on me because I have to carry the health insurance/benefits burden.

                      There's three right there.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                        Capitalism is the problem. We could have instituted short term UBI (as you know) and saved the economy for cheaper. Instead we gave corporations a ton, the people very little and pretended to care about small business.
                        I 100% agree with you here. The right UBI would have been the way to go.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Capitalism is the problem. We could have instituted short term UBI (as you know) and saved the economy for cheaper. Instead we gave corporations a ton, the people very little and pretended to care about small business.
                          "We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of a few. We cannot have both."

                          Justice Louis Brandeis, 1941
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                            I know people that are in the gig economy...as a side hustle it is fine but if it is your primary employment you arent going to make a lot most likely. I looked into it when I moved to Seattle (driving for Uber/Lyft) because I was going to need a job quick and the pluses were way outweighed by the negatives. It hasnt changed much which is why you see many of those drivers driving for both companies ALONG WITH working for companies like Instacart or Shipt. (however that is spelled) They end up working just as hard as a regular job would anyways.

                            The gig economy is not an answer to any problem long term.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              I 100% agree with you here. The right UBI would have been the way to go.
                              My buddy (a Republican Small Business Owner dealing with SBA) cannot believe that anyone with an IQ over 40 doesnt see it. You cant solve this with bull****te Trickle Down. He 100% supports UBI to fix the problem
                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                My buddy (a Republican Small Business Owner dealing with SBA) cannot believe that anyone with an IQ over 40 doesnt see it. You cant solve this with bull****te Trickle Down. He 100% supports UBI to fix the problem :shock:
                                In fact, with the right UBI. Health Care. And Social Security. You could fix the whole ball of wax. All this event would have done is shuffle the deck.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                                Comment

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