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  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    BTW, after interviewing last month, I was not selected for the new manager role. The first round was conducted by associate VPs from another department, presumably to provide more objectivity to the process. I actually got a phone call about it from one of our department's directors immediately after they made their first round cuts.

    He was...apologetic? Said that all 7 first round interviews were so good that they struggled to narrow it down to a Top 4 for the second round. He said he semi-seriously asked our CEO, "How do we promote all of these candidates?" Unfortunately the decision came down to narrow differences in some key areas. I sort of expected this, as we tend to hire pretty high caliber/creme de la creme folks.

    Anyway, he assured me that overall I had made a very good impression in the interview and that after talking to me personally in Boston the previous week, he's actually worried that he could lose me to another, more technical role within the firm. Not sure I want to go down the platform architect path just yet, but the option could be there. For now, apparently the target for our department is to have 150 employees by the end of 2023. We're currently about to cross 50. So, there will almost certainly be more opportunities for promotion and leadership roles in the coming months.

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    Wow. I had to read this three times to digest the full horror of it.

    Is it an absolutely ball buster job? Is it career dead end technology? Is, um, your company in trouble -- like, a lot of trouble? Are you publicly traded, can you whisper your ticker code?

    The internals pulling out is particularly no bueno. Dude, maybe they know something you don't. :-)
    The job is f’n amazing - getting to work for me is just a bonus!

    We’re just severely understaffed due to external attrition (since the whole industry is understaffed) so anyone who wants a change (or is within sniffing distance of a promotion) can get multiple internal offers just for the asking. We’re cannibalizing ourselves and not bringing in enough external hires to fill all the seats in this sick game of reverse musical chairs.

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  • Deutsche Gopher Fan
    replied
    Candidates accepting offers and backing out before they start is not uncommon right now actually.

    Leave a comment:


  • MichVandal
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    The internals pulling out is particularly no bueno. Dude, maybe they know something you don't. :-)
    Hardly a surprise, really. Without things like pensions, it's the wild west out there to earn enough money to retire. Instead of looking to move up in the company you reside in, it's far more financially advantageous to constantly jump companies. I saw this pretty often for the last 12 years of my career.

    The funny thing is that the pensions probably cost companies a lot less money- between the raising war and the cost to re-train people. And, to be honest, the value of my pension equates to roughly a constant 25% of my salary put into an account that earned 4.5% over 30 years. Or if put in aggressive stock funds that averaged the S&P growth over the last 30 years (10%) it was a 11% of my salary that grew at 10%.
    So I got a 10-25% bonus that was put away for the future.

    Makes me feel a LOT better about staying until that fully vested. Especially since I was able to combine that with a 401k.

    Those days are LONG gone- with 401k limits at 20k/year, people need massive incomes to put into their own IRA's to make up for the loss of pensions. Which is why you see people constantly jump companies.

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  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

    I'm a hiring manager for the first time in my career. Trying to hire a first-level manager as a direct report. Had 3 of my 4 candidates I selected to interview (all 3 of my internal applicants) withdraw before their interviews. Selected more candidates, conducted 4 panel interviews with a panel of 3 directors and HR. Made an offer to our sole remaining internal candidate. He accepts. 8 days later says he's accepted an external offer. F me. Started screening applicants again. Both of the ones I talked to today flat out told me that they only applied to see if they could convince me to bump it up to a second-level manager position. No, not F me. F *you*!
    Wow. I had to read this three times to digest the full horror of it.

    Is it an absolutely ball buster job? Is it career dead end technology? Is, um, your company in trouble -- like, a lot of trouble? Are you publicly traded, can you whisper your ticker code?

    The internals pulling out is particularly no bueno. Dude, maybe they know something you don't. :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    Originally posted by wolverineTrumpet View Post

    The way I interpret it is 44 applicants get no response from potential employer. The ghosted is 2 applicants the employer tries to contact for an interview and employer is ghosted. Withdrawn are applicants that say no to job before getting an offer.

    I've only hired for 1 position so far in my career, and this graphic doesn't surprise me. Now if I can just get my employer to approve posting a backfill for my Quality Engineer that is moving across the country, I can go through this fun* process again.


    *fun of course being dripping with sarcasm.
    I’m a hiring manager for the first time in my career. Trying to hire a first-level manager as a direct report. Had 3 of my 4 candidates I selected to interview (all 3 of my internal applicants) withdraw before their interviews. Selected more candidates, conducted 4 panel interviews with a panel of 3 directors and HR. Made an offer to our sole remaining internal candidate. He accepts. 8 days later says he’s accepted an external offer. F me. Started screening applicants again. Both of the ones I talked to today flat out told me that they only applied to see if they could convince me to bump it up to a second-level manager position. No, not F me. F *you*!

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by wolverineTrumpet View Post

    The way I interpret it is 44 applicants get no response from potential employer. The ghosted is 2 applicants the employer tries to contact for an interview and employer is ghosted. Withdrawn are applicants that say no to job before getting an offer.

    I've only hired for 1 position so far in my career, and this graphic doesn't surprise me. Now if I can just get my employer to approve posting a backfill for my Quality Engineer that is moving across the country, I can go through this fun* process again.


    *fun of course being dripping with sarcasm.
    The way I read it, there is one applicant who filed 67 applications (I filed over that for my last job hunt). 44 companies never got back to him. 14 sent him a polite no. 9 offered him a first interview.

    He accepted 9 interviews. 2 ghosted him. After the 7 interviews he had, 5 offered him a 2nd interview, while 2 did not. Of the 5 2nd interviews, he got 3 offers. He made a counteroffer, they accepted, and he then rejected the other 2 offers.


    This seems reasonable to me. I'll have to go back to my notes but IINM my last job hunt was something like this:

    80 applications. 20 no response, 10 polite no, 50 arrangements for interview (these were first tier interview with the contracting company talent scout, not interviews with the eventual job site).

    50 first interviews. 10 did not follow back up with me or in any case never got their act together (I'd call that ghosting), 10 I told no flat out (poor match with their style), 30 we both expressed interest.

    30 second interviews, almost all with the contracting company hiring agent or in a couple really small cases one of their officers. 10 I got a bad vibe, the other 20 were interesting enough that we talked about specific job recs. Of these, 10 I asked to keep looking for me but didn't like that rec, 10 I asked to move to the next stage.

    10 "third" interviews, meaning the first interview with the actual people I would work with -- the PM, leads at site, etc. Of these, I rejected 2 out of hand as bad fits, while 4 said they were close to hiring other candidates.

    I received 4 offers, compared them, and took the one I thought would be the most fun. I didn't present a counter because I didn't want to wind up with a lesser job due to haggling and the offers were a 40% raise over my current salary which had plateaued because of 15 years at the same company. Frankly at that level I didn't care about differences in money any more.

    The only thing about the guy's chart that surprises me is 44 of 67 companies did not contact him. This could just be a difference in Contractor world, because in my business very few companies never get back to you because you are their revenue stream. In my case, the 20/80 non-responses was acceptable because I was asking for a very high salary given that I was completely changing my job and essentially "starting over."
    Last edited by Kepler; Yesterday, 09:21 PM.

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  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    There is no point of view. Just events.
    There are no events, just the thing-in-itself.

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  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Along the lines of discussion on interviewing, I saw a program about the use of AI in interviews and the application process, including in video interviews. Companies are using programs that analyze the interviewee's voice/speech patterns and facial movements during the interview. Apparently these programs can help identify "characteristics" that may be desirable for the job offered.

    Anyone here seen this is use?
    "We call it Voight-Kampff."

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Along the lines of discussion on interviewing, I saw a program about the use of AI in interviews and the application process, including in video interviews. Companies are using programs that analyze the interviewee's voice/speech patterns and facial movements during the interview. Apparently these programs can help identify "characteristics" that may be desirable for the job offered.

    Anyone here seen this is use?
    No, and it sounds just as awful as companies who make candidates take personality tests to determine "culture fit". In fact, I'm quite sure my current CEO would shake his head at this, not to mention the expense of it. When we hire an experienced consultant, we look for candidates with a track record of being collaborative problem solvers. When we hire juniors/associates, we look for enthusiastic tinkerers and/or career changers, not so much 23 year-olds fresh out of college who aren't sure what they want career-wise.

    Where I have heard of AI/VR being used lately is by very large firms like my former employer, who have been onboarding new associates during the pandemic and are trying to recreate the in-person onboarding experience with a "virtual office" and such.

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Along the lines of discussion on interviewing, I saw a program about the use of AI in interviews and the application process, including in video interviews. Companies are using programs that analyze the interviewee's voice/speech patterns and facial movements during the interview. Apparently these programs can help identify "characteristics" that may be desirable for the job offered.

    Anyone here seen this is use?

    Leave a comment:


  • wolverineTrumpet
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Who ghosted whom?
    who didn't get a response?
    The way I interpret it is 44 applicants get no response from potential employer. The ghosted is 2 applicants the employer tries to contact for an interview and employer is ghosted. Withdrawn are applicants that say no to job before getting an offer.

    I've only hired for 1 position so far in my career, and this graphic doesn't surprise me. Now if I can just get my employer to approve posting a backfill for my Quality Engineer that is moving across the country, I can go through this fun* process again.


    *fun of course being dripping with sarcasm.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    There is no point of view. Just events.
    Who ghosted whom?
    who didn't get a response?

    Leave a comment:


  • MissThundercat
    replied
    Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

    Did you change jobs? I thought your worked in the human care industry- taking care of other people....

    If you still do that, the irony. Care the patients and hurt the workers. Soon enough you will become a patient.
    Most of the healthcare systems in the area take their employees, eat them alive, spit out the bones, and slap a "now hiring heroes" sign on the window.

    It's no surprise that most of my coworkers use heavy amounts of weed or booze to cope with this ****.

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    There is no point of view. Just events.

    Leave a comment:

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