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Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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I really hate project managers. We waste so much time in meetings talking about process and presentations that we spend almost not time looking at data and making conclusions. And they tend not to go out of their way to understand much of anything other than "keep on the timing plan".
Horrible people.
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Originally posted by MichVandal View PostI really hate project managers. We waste so much time in meetings talking about process and presentations that we spend almost not time looking at data and making conclusions. And they tend not to go out of their way to understand much of anything other than "keep on the timing plan".
Horrible people.Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Kep, have you taken any courses in various PM methodology? I took a Scrum course a few years ago when I was between jobs and found it unbelievably valuable. Now, as a manager and sometimes PM, I use a lot of the ideas from that Agile/Scrum process. I don't do software development so it doesn't perfectly translate, but the real basic concepts of sprints/tasks and whatnot translate to almost anything.I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...
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Originally posted by Swansong View PostKep, have you taken any courses in various PM methodology? I took a Scrum course a few years ago when I was between jobs and found it unbelievably valuable. Now, as a manager and sometimes PM, I use a lot of the ideas from that Agile/Scrum process. I don't do software development so it doesn't perfectly translate, but the real basic concepts of sprints/tasks and whatnot translate to almost anything.
I just joined the PMI and am reading through PMBoK, and I'm on PM groups on reddit, Discord, LinkedIn, and the PMI to lurk and absorb language and zeitgeist. I'm trying to build a support/resource group which at first I'm unashamedly just going to be a drain on, eating their brains. Anybody here interested in a Project Management thread? I'll start one -- I haven't been ingratiating myself to you folks for the last 20 years for nothing. It was all the Long Game.
As for Agile, Scrum, and Kanban, I can spell them. I am starting to read up on them, but beyond the common sense precursors that I've stumbled on myself they are naught but words that come up in job reqs so far.
Last edited by Kepler; 08-25-2021, 09:07 AM.Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Originally posted by MichVandal View PostI really hate project managers. We waste so much time in meetings talking about process and presentations that we spend almost not time looking at data and making conclusions. And they tend not to go out of their way to understand much of anything other than "keep on the timing plan".
Horrible people.
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Originally posted by Kepler View Post
I have taken an overview course in Project Management and then I have training in some related stuff like EVM. There are elements of it from my CM background, I am very interested in approaches and resources to help me be more effective and not provoke the negative reaction MV voice -- since I come from a technical background I understand where he is coming from.
I just joined the PMI and am reading through PMBoK, and I'm on PM groups on reddit, Discord, LinkedIn, and the PMI to lurk and absorb language and zeitgeist. I'm trying to build a support/resource group which at first I'm unashamedly just going to be a drain on eating their brains. Anybody here interested in a Project Management thread? I'll start one -- I haven't been ingratiating myself to you folks for the last 20 years for nothing. It's the Long Game.
As for Agile, Scrum, and Kanban, I can spell them. I am starting to read up on them, but beyond the common sense precursors that I've stumbled on myself they are naught but words that come up in job reqs so far.
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Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
CM, they're the real enemy.
Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Originally posted by Kepler View Post
Do you feel they aren't approaching their tasks (coordination of different functions, communication/clarifications of objectives and parameters from leadership to technical staff and of status, risks, and technical considerations the other direction) correctly, or that the tasks themselves don't exist? If they made you a PM at gunpoint, how would you do it?
I'm not sure how to describe them, but we spend too much time worrying about the message to management vs. actually talking about the project. And because of that mindset in management, our section meetings have transition to us talking about our projects to mostly wasting time updating the one pagers for our managers.
Which means we have both PM's and managers to deal with instead of focusing on the actual project.
All of the PM's I've encountered are amazing at being passive aggressive to people- for every error state, they manage to blame everyone- thinking that if everyone worked on the issue at the same time, it would solve the problem. But that hardly ever does anything other than make people mad.
PM's tend to think they know about the technical details they are "managing" which makes them pretty dangerous when they hardly ever know enough.
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Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
lol maybe you just have bad project managers. I see my whole purpose is to take care of that stuff as much as possible so the people doing real work can focus on it.
Then again, our system is so process oriented, it makes it hard to actually do a project. Just sat in a training session over the project tracking system we have- and I'm glad I never had to deal with that- I honestly could not figure out why that even had to be in place.
9 more months to go.
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Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
If I were asked to be a PM, I would politely decline. Thankfully, in my career, I've never been asked- but then again, probably 20 years ago, they became an official position.
I'm not sure how to describe them, but we spend too much time worrying about the message to management vs. actually talking about the project. And because of that mindset in management, our section meetings have transition to us talking about our projects to mostly wasting time updating the one pagers for our managers.
Which means we have both PM's and managers to deal with instead of focusing on the actual project.
All of the PM's I've encountered are amazing at being passive aggressive to people- for every error state, they manage to blame everyone- thinking that if everyone worked on the issue at the same time, it would solve the problem. But that hardly ever does anything other than make people mad.
PM's tend to think they know about the technical details they are "managing" which makes them pretty dangerous when they hardly ever know enough.
1. Not respecting the team's time
2. Not recognizing the PM's personal technical ignorance
3. Fostering a fault-finding, distrustful environment
And what would help would be:
1. Ensuring time taken on management results in a commensurate decrease in task time and/or some magically equivalent increase in quality
2. Being humble, asking questions, having a technical peer to evaluate whether management objectives and guidance make practical sense
3. Being open, suspending judgment, focusing on the task and not on supposed deficiencies in performance
Is that fair?
I really want to be "one of the good ones."Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Originally posted by Kepler View Post
So what I'm hearing is:
1. Not respecting the team's time
2. Not recognizing the PM's personal technical ignorance
3. Fostering a fault-finding, distrustful environment
And what would help would be:
1. Ensuring time taken on management results in a commensurate decrease in task time and/or some magically equivalent increase in quality
2. Being humble, asking questions, having a technical peer to evaluate whether management objectives and guidance make practical sense
3. Being open, suspending judgment, focusing on the task and not on supposed deficiencies in performance
Is that fair?
I really want to be "one of the good ones."
As for "is that fair" - I suppose it is, but can't really picture a good PM.
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Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
I would also suggest to know your technical limits. So that the team does not have to spend time explaining to you every single little detail.
As for "is that fair" - I suppose it is, but can't really picture a good PM.
So don't just know my limits but do some reading so I'm not wasting their time? Got it. Is it okay / welcome to take subject matter experts aside and ask them what resources they think I would find useful? You know one of the biggest obstacles to learning about what you don't know is you don't even know what you don't know.
This is good feedback, thank you.Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Way more awesome than working with adult customers.Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
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