Antiwork

[MichVandal]

Please keep in mind that working where I do has converted me from "leaning towards preferring private payers" to "**** NO, WE NEED SINGLE PAYER HOLY ****". Anything I say that seems like an argument against moving towards single payer is more of a "problem to be solved" kind of thing than a show-stopper.


One additional issue is with investments into the private insurers. There is an enormous amount of investment - and much of that in the form of retirement (401k, 403b, IRA, pensions, etc.) - in these companies. We would need to find a way to move us off them without mangling state pension plans and whatnot.

True, but maybe we can slowly get them off of this pyramid scheme.

As for the actual workers, many of them can be converted to the same position in single payer.

[Swansong]

Again, no argument at all that we should not do this. My biggest concern is that we'll have Republicans violently and staunchly against any change, and then Democrats just throwing their hands up and either continuing to do nothing or, worse, simply outlawing private insurance (directly or indirectly) and causing an enormous economic disruption that leads to years of fascist Republican electoral victories.


The problem here, to me, is that we have one of our two main political parties currently standing as a brick wall against any change.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Again, no argument at all that we should not do this. My biggest concern is that we'll have Republicans violently and staunchly against any change, and then Democrats just throwing their hands up and either continuing to do nothing or, worse, simply outlawing private insurance (directly or indirectly) and causing an enormous economic disruption that leads to years of fascist Republican electoral victories.


The problem here, to me, is that we have one of our two main political parties currently standing as a brick wall against any change.

This is why I don’t care if I’m laid off. I’ve been in this work for nearly two decades and have had enough.

conservatives would rather die or go bankrupt than paying less for care. And you get tired of people- like the absolute buffoons from this board- who scream about how single payer won’t work and yet haven’t spent a day working in a single payer system or willing to acknowledge that the things that we used to be better at are slipping or failing

[psych]

Again, no argument at all that we should not do this. My biggest concern is that we'll have Republicans violently and staunchly against any change, and then Democrats just throwing their hands up and either continuing to do nothing or, worse, simply outlawing private insurance (directly or indirectly) and causing an enormous economic disruption that leads to years of fascist Republican electoral victories.


The problem here, to me, is that we have one of our two main political parties currently standing as a brick wall against any change.

I’m confused on one thing. You said we need single payer, yet you also say your biggest concern is Democrats outlawing, either indirectly or directly, private insurance, resulting in GOP wave elections. Are you insinuating Democrats’ messaging on outlawing private insurance, aka single-payer, will be much worse than the GOP’s messaging against it, but that single-payer needs to happen anyways?

Edit: Or, maybe you mean Democrats will bungle the transition, which is a distinct possibility, considering the, I presume, difficulty of the task?

[Swansong]

Sorry, that isn't clear at all is it.

I have a few concerns here:

• Democrats bungling the messaging in general.
• Potential for a "fine, f it, we're going to outlaw private insurance effective tomorrow because we think its our least bad option" and the resulting economic chaos that would bring... that would likely lead to many years of GQP electoral victories.

I think there's likely a place for private insurance, even in a single-payer system, but I absolutely haven't thought that through so don't come at me on it.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Sorry, that isn't clear at all is it.

I have a few concerns here:

• Democrats bungling the messaging in general.
• Potential for a "fine, f it, we're going to outlaw private insurance effective tomorrow because we think its our least bad option" and the resulting economic chaos that would bring... that would likely lead to many years of GQP electoral victories.

I think there's likely a place for private insurance, even in a single-payer system, but I absolutely haven't thought that through so don't come at me on it.

I teach classes on this. There are many, many ways of funding in all the socialist nations, and private insurance exists in basically all of them.

[psych]

Alright, alright. It’s a niche market for private insurers in single payer, like cosmetic surgery. Basic healthcare in single payer countries is covered by the government, whether that’s UK-style, Canadian-style, or Australian-style. Single payer is always universal in nature. Universal healthcare is not necessarily single payer, and could be achieved with robust insurance companies, if we chose that route.

[unofan]

Sorry, that isn't clear at all is it.

I have a few concerns here:

• Democrats bungling the messaging in general.
• Potential for a "fine, f it, we're going to outlaw private insurance effective tomorrow because we think its our least bad option" and the resulting economic chaos that would bring... that would likely lead to many years of GQP electoral victories.

I think there's likely a place for private insurance, even in a single-payer system, but I absolutely haven't thought that through so don't come at me on it.

Gradually lower the age for Medicare/allow people to opt in to its coverage. Merge medicaid with Medicare. Keep private insurance for people who want extra, ala Medicare advantage plans.

[RaceBoarder]

More or less, my understanding is that for someone like me (Type-1 Diabetic), Single Payer will greatly cut back on the price gouging that goes on with "everyday" prescriptions like insulin that I need. Stuff like this is what is draining the finances of A LOT of people in this country.

Personally I'm at around $50k of out-of-pocket medical expenses since 2010. Not all of it is Diabetes related (About $9,000 is related to a broken left wrist in 2018), but its a vast majority of that.

Where the private insurance would come in would be for people who either want elective stuff (like cosmetic surgery) or for people who need everything ASAP and it needs to be "the best" (think athletes and their injuries). A small, but wealthy segment of the population. I think it's doable to give them an outside choice if they want to pay for it.

[Jimjamesak]

I think DGF has mentioned it before but going to universal care would be a boon to unions because they wouldn’t have to be constantly making concessions in order to keep health care benefits in negotiations.

[Jimjamesak]

UPS and the Teamsters are heading back to the negotiating table next week. Be interesting to see if they get a deal done in time.

There is a conspiracy theory abound that a deal has already been made but they're not announcing it so the union can go around and hold these big rallies and practice strikes to look strong and put more pressure on the Amazon organizing efforts.

Or the corporate class is a bunch of greedy idiots wildly out of touch with the rest of society.

[St. Clown]

Private insurance in this country would likely follow the design used by other nations. There is a base insurance that will handle all necessary medical procedures, but then if there’s a premium or “luxury” option to accomplish the same goal, private insurance would step in to pay the difference.

My friend spent a year abroad in Australia, and she needed medical care to the point of a serious surgery and almost two weeks in the hospital. Government insurance provided double rooms for recovery while privately insured people would be upgraded to single occupancy rooms.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

That about sums it up. UK- you want a private hospital room? Private insurance.

[MichVandal]

That about sums it up. UK- you want a private hospital room? Private insurance.

Well, even with really good private insurance, a loved one had to share a room in the US. So this is not a real burden for 99% of Americans.

[MichVandal]

One other benefit to single payer- small businesses. All the people who want to start a company don’t have to worry about getting sick, so they are far more likely to start one. As well as less likely to fail due to medical problems. Let alone having to deal with employees.

Single payer will be a huge benefit to the economy.

So it will save money overall, help the economy, and really help the overall health of the economy.

Too bad Ronnie said it was communism back when he was still an actor.