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  • #91
    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post

    Dis iz Amurica! ;-)

    Why you guys expect the resident small business owner to have any other opinion is hilarious to me. I'm quite sure my retired father would say the exact same thing. They struggled to staff their non-profit group homes when times were good because fast food and retail could afford to pay a bit better, and given the choice very few people want to do direct care work for disabled adults vs. flipping burgers.
    The thing I find most irritating about guys like Hovey is that they analogize their experience with the ruling class. They really have busted their caboose. I cannot imagine the amount of sweat equity Hovey has put into his business. I know I could never make those sacrifices to build wealth. I really, really, really admire him for his drive and his obvious strength of resolve.

    But Hovey should be the very first person to turn on the billionaires and demand they be striped in the public square, all their property expropriated, and they be consigned to minimum wage labor befitting their complete lack of any moral value. He thinks they are like him, but they are the OPPOSITE of Hovey. He is labor -- just a particularly situated labor where the work is to coordinate other labor. The rich are a inheritance rentier class. They are a useless and burdensome aristocracy with exactly the opposite of his drive and ability.

    But instead he has been redirected to hate the government. All of the energy and anger he should feel against the real oppressors and hammock-swingers in our system he has been programmed to direct against the only institutions we have to protect ourselves from the dim-witted power of sheer capitol accretion that grinds all of us down.

    Hovey's not an idiot. He probably has some weird psychological wiring issues but (1) don't we all and (2) unlike Tucker Carlson and the Dumps he's actually worked for a living. He should know. All of our small business creators should be frothing socialists, demanding that the superwealthy be sliced up and redistributed so that the people who do the actual work -- he and his employees -- have a chance to prosper.
    Last edited by Kepler; 07-08-2021, 10:18 AM.
    Cornell University
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    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Kepler View Post

      The thing I find most irritating about guys like Hovey is that they analogize their experience with the ruling class. They really have busted their caboose. I cannot imagine the amount of sweat equity Hovey has put into his business. I know I could never make those sacrifices to build wealth. I really, really, really admire him for his drive and his obvious strength of resolve.

      But Hovey should be the very first person to turn on the billionaires and demand they be striped in the public square, all their property expropriated, and they be consigned to minimum wage labor befitting their complete lack of any moral value. He thinks they are like him, but they are the OPPOSITE of Hovey. He is labor -- just a particularly situated labor where the work is to coordinate other labor. The rich are a inheritance rentier class. They are a useless and burdensome aristocracy with exactly the opposite of his drive and ability.

      But instead he has been redirected to hate the government. All of the energy and anger he should feel against the real oppressors and hammock-swingers in our system he has been programmed to direct against the only institutions we have to protect ourselves from the dim-witted power of sheer capitol accretion that grinds all of us down.

      Hovey's not an idiot. He probably has some weird psychological wiring issues but (1) don't we all and (2) unlike Tucker Carlson and the Dumps he's actually worked for a living. He should know. All of our small business creators should be frothing socialists, demanding that the superwealthy be sliced up and redistributed so that the people who do the actual work -- he and his employees -- have a chance to prosper.
      Here is the thing.

      First, I don't hate government. I have, in fact, actually worked with or for government at one time. I think government very much has a proper role, and included in that, is a regulatory role. I just tend to lean more towards the "less regulation" end of the spectrum than others on this board.

      With respect to billionaires or the super wealthy, I neither envy nor loathe them. I simply don't think about them. I don't care which one of them gets to a $100 billion first, or whether they give their money to a foundation or their kids, or spend it on hookers and blow. I really don't care.

      They way I look at it, nothing prevented me from being the founder of Microsoft or Amazon or Berkshire Hathaway. I just wasn't. Those weren't my interests, nor were they where my meager talents or skills lie. I don't think that's a crime against humanity, or a bad break, or something that I should feel mad or bad about.

      We're all going to end up in the same place anyway, no matter how much money we have. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride, and spending my time brooding about unfairness or inequity or whether someone is getting a better deal than me isn't that enjoyable, at least for me.

      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

        Here is the thing.

        First, I don't hate government. I have, in fact, actually worked with or for government at one time. I think government very much has a proper role, and included in that, is a regulatory role. I just tend to lean more towards the "less regulation" end of the spectrum than others on this board.

        With respect to billionaires or the super wealthy, I neither envy nor loathe them. I simply don't think about them. I don't care which one of them gets to a $100 billion first, or whether they give their money to a foundation or their kids, or spend it on hookers and blow. I really don't care.

        They way I look at it, nothing prevented me from being the founder of Microsoft or Amazon or Berkshire Hathaway. I just wasn't. Those weren't my interests, nor were they where my meager talents or skills lie. I don't think that's a crime against humanity, or a bad break, or something that I should feel mad or bad about.

        We're all going to end up in the same place anyway, no matter how much money we have. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride, and spending my time brooding about unfairness or inequity or whether someone is getting a better deal than me isn't that enjoyable, at least for me.
        The only reason why you don’t care about what the wealthy do is because you have enough money and property to able to not care.

        ”We’re all going to end up in the same place anyway” What a selfish answer eh? Yeah, we’re all going to die, some will just get there quicker and suffer a lot more on the way.
        U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
        Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
        I spell Failure with UAF

        Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
        But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
        Originally posted by Doyle Woody
        Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

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        • #94
          Probably the weird psychology had to do with growing up in North Dakota.

          I remember as a little kid watching the tv show Hawaii Five-O (the original) one night. It's probably 20 degrees below zero outside, and all I saw were beautiful beaches, beautiful girls, people walking around in swimsuits, and I asked my mother, "how come we don't live in Hawaii?"

          Her response was, "if you lived in Hawaii, where would you go on vacation."

          That should give you some insight. Haha.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

          Comment


          • #95
            Did your mom serve on the board for United Way and introduce you to the CEO of IBM? Did you get a $300,000 interest free loan from your parents? Were you the son of a Congressman? No to all of those? Then yeah, there were some things preventing you from being the founder of Microsoft, Amazon, or Berkshire.

            Comment


            • #96
              The weird psychology thing is while you aren't concerned about billionaires you are very concerned that nobody gets over on you. Why should people who don't work get a UBI? Why should people who make minimum wage get a living wage? Why should we interfere with the market when it sets prices for labor?

              This paranoia that someone somewhere is getting something for nothing is the hallmark of the Conservative Mind. Contrary to your explanation for why you don't afflict the comfortable, you are very concerned when people try to comfort the afflicted. You come across as if being selfish is the normal mode of human behavior -- it isn't, it's weird. People try to help each other. When you say "what the rich have is their business, but what the poor have is MY business," you are being the archetypical conservative.
              Cornell University
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              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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              • #97
                Originally posted by Proud2baLaker View Post
                Did your mom serve on the board for United Way and introduce you to the CEO of IBM? Did you get a $300,000 interest free loan from your parents? Were you the son of a Congressman? No to all of those? Then yeah, there were some things preventing you from being the founder of Microsoft, Amazon, or Berkshire.
                But those were not guarantees of outcomes. To say otherwise is to discount the efforts of Gates, Bezos, and Buffett. (And I'm no fan of any of them lately, and I've worked for two of the three.)
                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                North Dakota Hockey:

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post

                  But those were not guarantees of outcomes. To say otherwise is to discount the efforts of Gates, Bezos, and Buffett. (And I'm no fan of any of them lately, and I've worked for two of the three.)
                  Not guarantees, but pretty close. Mobility beyond one quintile of wealth is exceedingly rare. For the vast majority your lot is cast at birth.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post

                    But those were not guarantees of outcomes. To say otherwise is to discount the efforts of Gates, Bezos, and Buffett. (And I'm no fan of any of them lately, and I've worked for two of the three.)
                    On the other hand, if you DON'T have them, it's pretty much a guarantee of not being a CEO of the largest company on the planet.

                    Which does mean that it's pretty much a requirement for that level of success.

                    In terms of effort- when was the last time Gates of Bezos actually wrote code? That's where the actual work happens. Otherwise, their efforts are just managing other people, or manipulating the market.

                    Comment


                    • But you don't have to have them to end up pretty well off if you do the work.
                      Two of the wealthiest North Dakotans (Forbes 400) are farm kids who came from literally the dirt.


                      *Gary Tharaldson (Dasey, ND; Tharaldson Hospitality), Michael Chambers (Carrington, ND; Aldevron, just sold for $9.6 billion)
                      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                      North Dakota Hockey:

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                        But you don't have to have them to end up pretty well off if you do the work.
                        Two of the wealthiest North Dakotans (Forbes 400) are farm kids who came from literally the dirt.


                        *Gary Tharaldson (Dasey, ND; Tharaldson Hospitality), Michael Chambers (Carrington, ND; Aldevron, just sold for $9.6 billion)
                        Yea, anyone can win the lottery. That's just two examples. Forgive me for not really giving them the "hard work" credit. I've worked long enough to see the "work" anyone manager or above actually does. They make a lot of money off of the hard work of other people- generally making decisions based on the outcomes of the hard work.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                          But you don't have to have them to end up pretty well off if you do the work.
                          Two of the wealthiest North Dakotans (Forbes 400) are farm kids who came from literally the dirt.


                          *Gary Tharaldson (Dasey, ND; Tharaldson Hospitality), Michael Chambers (Carrington, ND; Aldevron, just sold for $9.6 billion)
                          Congrats on finding two statistical anomalies (I'm taking your word for it.) But they are still just that. You should do a tour of the US where you tell poor people to simply work harder, think of all the lives you could change.

                          Comment


                          • The US now ranks 27 in social mobility out of 82 nations. Our laissez faire system is an impediment to mobility and leaves each generation trapped in the economic caste of its parents.

                            The US has cratered in social mobility ever since we reversed extractive taxation on the wealthy. Meanwhile, the nations with the greatest mobility have the highest tax rates on the rich.

                            That's how you do it. It's proven. It's how we did it in the period between 1932 and 1980. The United States is the most successful experiment in "socialism" in history, and what destroyed the American middle class and ended the American Dream was the rightwing reaction that began with Reagan.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                              But you don't have to have them to end up pretty well off if you do the work.
                              Two of the wealthiest North Dakotans (Forbes 400) are farm kids who came from literally the dirt.


                              *Gary Tharaldson (Dasey, ND; Tharaldson Hospitality), Michael Chambers (Carrington, ND; Aldevron, just sold for $9.6 billion)
                              I’m sure having acres of nutrient rich farm land from the family had nothing to do with their success…
                              U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                              Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                              I spell Failure with UAF

                              Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                              But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                              Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                              Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                                I’m sure having acres of nutrient rich farm land from the family had nothing to do with their success…
                                You apparently know nothing of the farm land near Dazey and Carrington.
                                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                                North Dakota Hockey:

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